Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Contesting a will

12 replies

namechanger0987 · 29/12/2019 23:46

Posting here for traffic, I hope that's ok?
Just wondering if anyone has ever challenged a will without using a solicitor. They have quoted us £1000 just to look into the case and £10k plus if it goes to court. We can afford this if we win but not if we lose.
The person we are challenging will not give up without a fight.
I think we have a pretty strong case and I'm not sure what the solicitor can add legally to our case.
We are challenging the wills validity due to coercive control but we have pretty good evidence (I think)
Want to give ourselves the best chance of winning but we do not have £10k plus to throw away.

OP posts:
RoseMartha · 30/12/2019 00:00

Have you had one quote? Because I suggest you get three. You cant get a decent feel for value if only have one.

Solicitors charge an obscene amount.

Beware a quote is a quote, the final figure might be much more. I say this as getting divorced which is a totally different situation but my initial quote I received means nothing as costs to date are triple that.

DragonMamma · 30/12/2019 00:02

There’s a reason that every man and his dog don’t contest wills each day...it’s a tough area of litigation, with high emotions from both sides usually.

The reason a solicitor charges a lot is because it’s tricky and often the estates aren’t worth the potential costs (financial and emotional).

If your case is as sound as you think it is, you may be offered a CFA (no win, no fee) but that’s quite rare where I work and the estate would need to be worth quite a bit.

Are you due to benefit from the estate as it stands anyway? That could help towards your costs if so?

Litigation can run in to the tens of thousands unfortunately.

LuluJakey1 · 30/12/2019 00:07

I would be careful. It can cost an absolute fortune and most cases that reach court are found unproven. It is very difficult to prove.
The law works on the basis that a person can choose to leave their estate to whoever they please. Judges are very wary of interfering in that.
Can I ask if the will was written by a solicitor and properly witnessed? If so it will be extremely difficult to challenge it. A solicitor may well take the case on- they are money-making cases. That in no way means you have a good case.
I have some experience of this.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

VanGoghsDog · 30/12/2019 00:16

If you think the will was written under duress isn't that a police matter?

namechanger0987 · 30/12/2019 00:31

We won't benefit, even though we should, as someone has had the will written. There was no previous Will and it should have been a straight forward inheritance.
It's more about the principal and the sentimental things than the money to be honest. This person should not be benefitting from it and she has lied and manipulated to have the Will changed. Police were involved before it was written and I made multiple safeguarding reports.

It was wrote with solicitor and witnessed unfortunately so I know that will go against us but she was involved in this process and there is hand written evidence from deceased that doesn't match with what is in the will.

I know it's going to be a difficult fight which is why we need to keep costs down as we can't afford to lose.

We have made reports to police and they are looking in to it.

Do we have any chance of winning this? Are many people successful? We have a lot of evidence etc. So to us it's an easy case but obviously we know the whole truth and the whole story, a judge only knows what we have as actual evidence and it's whether any of it has a legal standing.

For eg. We have some hand written notes about will, it's obvious it's about a will but it doesn't state anywhere on the note that it's about a Will. So will that become non evidence because it could be argued it doesn't actually state it's a Will on it? Does that make sense?

OP posts:
VanGoghsDog · 30/12/2019 00:42

The will is witnessed and was drawn up independently, the note was neither of those things. I would say the note would bear very little weight.

You could ask the police to ask the solicitor who drew up the will for their file notes where they should have written the instructions, that might shed some light. I have no idea if the solicitor has to provide them other than in a criminal investigation though. If they do show anything, it's not going to do much for the solicitor reputation!

LuluJakey1 · 01/01/2020 01:00

The solicitor should have their file notes, as @VanGoghsDog says. However, it may depend how long ago the will was drawn up. If it was a number of years they may not, some solicitors destroy them automatically after 5 years.
Anyone who benefits from a will should not really be involved at all in the witnessing of it and a solicitor should know that. That would be seen as not good practice.
Unfortunately, anyone can change their will as it suits them, so notes of possible intent pre-this will are just that. The will itself over-rides those if it was properly made.
Do you know exactly what it says, who the estate was left to, who the executors are and what it amounts to? That is important.

If it is a small estate, it us unlikely to be worth challenging legally. If you did challenge and won, the estate would likely have to bear the costs which could eat up the estate. If you challenged and lost, you would have to bear the costs of the challenge and possibly the defence yourself. Bear in mind that if you required a barrister that could escalate costs. However, not all cases end up in court, many are settled by negotiation. For example if you are really upset about some personal belongings your solicitor can write and request that the beneficiary of the estate considers passing those items to you as keepsakes of your relationship with the deceased. They might well do so if it avoids a court case. If this person is the sole beneficiary and executor they have two years in which they can choose to vary the will -ie they could choose to make other bequests if they felt someone had been left out. A solicitor can find a way to suggest that as a negotiation.

If it is a significant estate, it might be worth pursuing the matter in court if you feel really strongly. You need to weigh up your evidence rather than your feelings about what you think happened. A solicitor would be very silly to put their professional reputation at risk by colluding with someone who was coercing a vulnerable person. A solicitor has to be seen to act in the best interests of their client and should take particular steps to assure themselves that- at the point the instructions are given to them by the client- their client has the capacity to make the will and is doing so of their own free will without any undue influence. Alzheimers or dementia do not preclude someone from having the capacity to make a will. That person may have periods of lucidity where they are quite clear in their thinking. Witnesses should not be executors who are going to benefit. You can see how the notes made during this process by the solicitor can be so revealing- they should contain details of how the solicitor ascertained capacity and free will. The solicitor, if they have acted improperly can be sued and the firm will have insurance to cover this should they be found to have acted improperly.

Evidence that would carry some weight might be medical evidence from the time the will was written, or if you are a spouse, or child of the deceased and were promised an inheritance which you can prove you relied and depended on-that could be seen as carrying some weight. Fir instance if you never bought a property of your own and lived with the deceased and invested in theirs over the years on the understanding they would be leaving a share to you that could be seen as you depending on an expectation of inheritance. You have to be a very close relative with proof of the dependence and expectation to claim this.

A previous will in your favour would only be evidence taken into account if for whatever reason the final will was found to be invalid- in which case the immediate previous will would be re-instated as long as that was valid. If a will is written by a solicitor who has taken the appropriate steps to ascertain capacity and free will of the client, and the will is properly drawn up, signed and witnessed it would be unlikely to be found invalid.

LuluJakey1 · 01/01/2020 01:02

You need to see what the police say. That could be very telling and give you direction.

BrokenWing · 01/01/2020 01:16

If you lose will you be liable for the other parties legal costs?

FrenchFancie · 01/01/2020 08:20

It’s very very hard to successfully challenge a will - that’s why costs are as high as you have been quoted (I worked in this area and the quote you have been given is about right for what we would charge).
It’s a tricky and intense area of litigation and requires many many hours of work on the part of the solicitor, it’s not something that is easy to do by yourself.
Also consider the emotional costs of bringing a case - it’s a tough rollercoaster of a ride and you will almost certainly find it time consuming and draining - more so if you try to go it alone without legal representation.
Ask for some other quotes - remember not all solicitors firms take on this type of work, and certainly many that do don’t do it regularly (it’s a fairly rare thing to do). And then think if it’s worth it to you - you stand to loose a large chunk of money, plus your time and emotional involvement in the case. Is that worth it?

YesThisIsMe · 01/01/2020 08:33

Sometimes the legal insurance you get with your house insurance will cover probate disputes. I assume the solicitor you’ve talked to has already asked you to check? However they’ll only help if it’s a good enough case.

Some solicitors will fight probate cases on a CFA (“no win no fee”) basis, possibly backed by insurance to pay the other side’s costs if you lose. Again they’ll only take it on with a decent chance of winning, and perhaps you should let that be your guide as to whether to pursue the case - if firms who do a reasonable level of CFA probate work won’t take it on then maybe you shouldn’t take the risk either.

MarieG10 · 01/01/2020 08:48

£10k sounds incredibly low in the case of it going to court. What is the solicitor charging as outside London you usually look at circa £300+Vat an hour? There is no way they are likely to get into court without a lot of ore work, gathering evidence, negotiating and then court on the day for circa 25 hours of work.

You need to be cautious as opening guesstimates if costs can be wholly unrealistic once the case has been assessed. Whilst I know it is not the same, my friend got divorced recently and cost her £30k. That represented a fair amount of negotiation but didn't progress to court when if it had, a barrister would have been briefed which opened up huge additional costs

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is closed and is no longer accepting replies. Click here to start a new thread.

Swipe left for the next trending thread