can you ask at interview whether...

[MrsMillerbecameababy]

there are colleagues who are frequently off "sick" / what the sickness absence rate amongst colleagues is?

You can't can you?

I work for a large organisation but in a small geographically isolated self sufficient team. It's a 24/7 job (healthcare) so if someone is sick their shift has to be covered.

One colleague in my team no longer wants to do shift work and is looking for a new job, but in the meantime is off sick about 25% of the time. The rest of us have to cover. This has led to people (including me) doing really long double shifts over the holidays as nobody else can be reached when she phones in.

I'm thinking of moving to another team. I don't mind shifts but my shifts, not a high chance that going in to work 09:00-18:00 will see me doing a 24 hour shift (this happened last week) or 16:00-06:00 turn into 16:00-16:00.

Can a candidate ask about how much sick leave a prospective new team take (no names or identifying information obviously) and expect an honest answer or is this a totally forbidden question?

I wouldn't...but sympathise with you hugely. I have a colleague who very rarely works a full week, always something to prevent it, and I go into work not knowing if I'll have my normal hours and workload or whether I will need to rearrange and pick up the slack.

No but you could mention when they ask you why you want to leave that you always covering those off sick is a factor.

I'm in the NHS and I've done interviews. I sympathise with your situation (we also have some colleagues who are off 'sick' on a regular basis).

But no I don't think you can ask that as a question in an interview.

Could you possibly ask how many staff work on a shift as different question, and (if you are qualified nurse or similar) how many qualified staff are on each shift? We try now wherever possible to put two qualified nurses on each shift for example, so if one of them goes sick there's still someone there so the preceding nurse can still go home.

If it's NHS you can look at the staff survey for that trust.....

No but you can ask what the process is when team members are off sick and who covers their shifts. That would be fine to ask

Thanks for the advice everyone. I've been asked to apply for a specific job already but it's another small geographically isolated team and I know that the set up is similar to where I am currently. I just don't know anything about the individual colleagues and the sickness culture... Teams are always expected to cover one another's absence.

I think I might need to think about working somewhere with a bigger team so that the impact of one team member being unreliable is diluted... Pity as this other job would be great in a lot of ways, but I don't want to be constantly covering...

If I were you I would apply as you want to move anyway so the interview will be great experience. If offered the job, I would then have na honest conversation asking what the sick cover requirements currently are before deciding whether to accept. I wouldn't ask the question in the interview though. Hope it works out OK!

You could ask how unplanned absences are covered and if they arise regularly.

Are regular high levels of absence not part of performance management? The person should be having rtw meetings after every absence and shoukd have targets for imorovement so matters can proceed to ill health capability or disciplinary dismissal if necessary.

OhTheRoses this has also astounded me, having only ever heard stories of people being unfairly managed out due to several unfortunate bouts of genuine illness. Nope - as long as the rules about certifying are followed there are no consequences. My direct line manager is elusive (manager of five teams) and based on a completely different site but usually in motion, and I'm fairly certain that as long as the headcount is met and shifts are covered he is absolutely unconcerned with minor irritations like misuse of sick leave. On an organisational level there are no consequences as long as procedures are followed and colleagues aren't simply failing to turn up without notifying the preceding shift.

There's a massive recruitment and retention problem in the organisation and it's being very badly handled. One of the problems is the fact their legally has to be a set quota of qualified staff members on the books, but it doesn't matter whether those colleagues actually come into work I suspect that at senior as at mid management level the priority is not "driving away" qualified staff by calling them out on ridiculous levels of sick leave. As long as they're technically employed quotas are met. This of course is stupidly short sighted as it's going to drive away those of us constantly covering for "sick" in definite inverted commas colleagues and burning out ourselves. I suspect that there is also a "if you can't beat them, join them" contingent...

My employer has lots of long service benefits (internal supplimental employer pension plan kicks in after 5 years service for example) but I'm going to end up being the weirdo who seeks out a new employer with a less generous attitude to employee sick leave at this rate!

Perhaps the NHS needs to start managing its resources rather than bleating about resources. This is why I have little respect for it.

Would you and your colleagues contemplate approaching the manager and noting, nicely, that the
situation is having a negative impact on morale and there will be an impact on patient care if it is not dealt with.

It isn't the NHS OhTheRoses

I think we'd have to go higher up the management chain than our direct manager, who always smiles, nods, and makes concerned noises, but nothing actually happens.

Surely there's something around the working time directive and pulling unexpected 24hr shifts.

And what happens if people can't stay on to the next shift, is they have childcare or lives outside of work?

crankysaurus this is going to happen. I'm the only one on our small team with dependent children under 16 (one colleague has an older teen, one is non resident parent for a young child, the others have adult or no children), but "luckily" my DH was/ is off for the entire Christmas period so lucky old me could stay 24 hours... I am afraid I'm going to end up with another 24 hour shift tonight/ tomorrow because this colleague is supposed to relieve me after my night shift - college who did last night already rang to ask me to start at lunch time today because this colleague is meant to be on days but is "ill". I said no because if I start early there's a high chance I'll end up working 36 hours! That really is illegal! However as we have to be on-site but are technically only "on call" between midnight and 6am (we are allowed to go to bed but must be ready to attend to emergencies, and 6 hours on call obviously doesn't equate to 6 hours sleep) working 24 hours is apparently fine in exceptional circumstances because midnight to 6am counts as a break.

That sounds like awful management and planning, and like you said upthread will burn people out. Is it in your contacts that you are obliged to stay on for an extra shift?

And if you all can't make it, does your manager have to step in?

If nothing will change as it is then I'd have a log of all these occasions and escalate it.

They must or should value you OP and will/should be disappointed if you leave given your reliability. Can you raise this with HR and point out that there isn’t an adequate system in place for unplanned leave and it’s having negative consequences for you?

I guess the one thing I wouldn't do is pin this on the absent colleague. Point out the effect on everyone else from the shift planning and cover but it would be up to the manager to work out what to do about that one staff member.

The person who calls in sick so often doesn't have children. I totally understand that she wants to stop working shifts - she told me a few months ago that shifts are a relationship killer and she wants a serious relationship/ marriage/ children. Daytime only work in our profession exists but is harder to get especially as she doesn't want a reduced pay check, so finding a new role will probably take time. That's all legitimate - what isn't legitimate is constantly skipping shifts and calling in sick when she knows that her colleagues will have to cover for her!

Depressingly if she does get through interview for a suitable new position they'll surely find out about her sickness absence rate and not make her a final offer (I'm sure employers can ask that...) so she'll probably never leave...

Ah, missed that bit, that's really not on then is it!

What would happen if someone was sick the shift before her?

Or rather the shift after her (wrong way round)

cheeseandpineapple yep my manager frequently tells me how much I'm valued. To be blunt this doesn't help at all. He's promised in the past to put measures in place to improve shift planning after he let two team members take the same holiday in a school holiday week (not Christmas) and then another colleague had an accident and another was signed off sick for the entire two weeks - meaning four colleagues left to cover two weeks 24/7, and DH had time off for my actual shifts. I ended up leaving my kids home alone to cover extra shifts with a neighbor agreeing to be on call for my children - my eldest is 14 so it was ok but a crap holiday for me and my children.

There is an emergency central number we can call in life or death emergencies, DH thinks I should start calling it when the next shift rings in sick and I can't reach my manager. The expectation is that we cover everything between us and nobody would dream of calling the emergency number in any situation short of terrorist attack or massive accident/ plague outbreak, but he may have a point...

cheeseandpineapple I think that you're right and HR are probably the way forward. Either that or look for a non critical role myself somewhere that's only open set hours. Shifts used to work well for our family though, until this colleague started treating her shifts as optional.

Yes, you can ask. At management level sickness levels are viewed as a barometer of how motivated/ valued the team feel so the interviewer would probably see it as you assessing this rather than not wanting to cover! (Previously worked as manager in NHS and would’ve thought it an insightful question)

Howmanysleepsnow ah now that is an interesting angle. It could be worth a carefully phrased question... After all I'd rather not be offered a new role due to asking odd questions than end up moving and being in exactly the same situation...

Sorry if I'm missing something, I have rtft, but what would happen if you just said no to extra shifts and just left once your allotted shift was over, declining to come in to cover at other times?