What should I do about my child.

[londongirl86]

Hi everyone. I really need some advice on my daughter. she's nearly 5 and for the last 2 years we've had a bit of trouble with her. I can never quite work out if she has anxiety or if there's an underlying problem such as autism or Asperger's.

I will try not to ho on too much and try to explain the best I can. She has a brother he was born 2 years ago. There was never any jealousy,she loves him and they get on so well. since then though she's never been the same child with everybody else. She's gone from being happy in playing and dancing to quiet as a mouse and not answering people. She started to go mute when we left the house not long after my son was born and then she came out of that and started talking again to me as normal. but since then she won't talk to my parents, it's like as soon as we get in their house she freezes up, she's nervous and she can't bring herself to talk. The problem is my parents aren't very good with it and they take it personally and they get sarcastic and they throw comments at it and they make her feel worse. I've tried to encourage my parents to not draw attention to it and to ignore it and just treat her the same as they treat my son, but we always come away with me feeling absolutely terrible. today they basically told her Santa wasn't coming to her because she wouldn't speak to them. She acted up a little bit because they were fussing her brother and not her so she did some silly things and got herself in trouble. She then didn't want to go home and didn't want to get shoes on which resulted in my parents telling her she needed to start behaving. Then my dad told me I need to speak to the school about her behaviour. I am currently sat crying in the bedroom because I'm at a loss at what to do to solve this issue so we can enjoy being around family.

she started school in September. I was advised to see how she got on before I spoke to any health visitors or doctors. She was shy at first which I expected and I wasn't surprised when the teacher said that. But she also said she was a lovely little girl and always smiling. she also said she didn't do many of the activities and sticking to the art table a bit too much. It's been 2 months since the parents evening and she's now playing much more with her male friend that she's known since she was 1 and she is also doing a little bit more activity wise with other children. She has a female friend now too. I have been called to one side a few weeks ago because she was behaving silly in class and being lively and I nipped that in the bud with a behaviour chart and the teachers were happy and said she's calmed down. They are concerned s little bit about her routine and the fact she does go into her own world a little bit. I am getting her ears and eyes checked next month. I'm never sure if it's just her age and because she didn't do a lot of nursery she's just struggling to adjust to long weeks or is it that she should be doing more than she is and I'm just making excuses for her now.

socially she struggles still at times. Sometimes it's the fact she won't speak, sometimes she gets lively and excited around people she's comfortable with and then she kind of irritates them sometimes. sometimes she can play really nicely and get along very well with her friends. The school haven't said that she's a bad person with playtime and things like that, they seemed happy enough she's mixing with some children. before she started school playdates were just hell for me. She's going through a stage where I'm not allowed to pick up anywhere else's kids and I'm not allowed to look at other people's babies because she feels threatened by it. She gets so anxious if I'm around on a play date and she's just determined to keep me away from the other kids. The amount of times I've tried to explain to her that if she could just relax she could have a friend around and have more fun and she could get to have tea parties and sleepovers, but can't do that while she is not able to allow me to help other people.

routine wise I don't think she's obsessed with a routine she's not bothered too much about change. she's able to write a few letters now and a few numbers and she's starting to learn to read and she is very able to act out the school day. she does a lot of role-play where she pretends she's the teacher and sets up the classroom. She's been through stages where she's been obsessed with playing doctors and pretending she's pregnant by putting a blanket or put up fullstop and she's also been through stages where she's love being outside or playing with sand and water. she absolutely loves drawing but she never seems to look after her pens and she tends to ruin things like books and stuff without meaning to. In fact she breaks things quite easily and she sometimes will destroy something that she shouldn't have destroyed. she enjoys going out swimming and she enjoys going for walks and she's always up for trying new things. She loves a chance to do a new activity. She might not talk to the people running the swim class but she definitely likes to be there taking part.

she's definitely able to show emotions and feelings, she's happy to give cuddles and receive cuddles. In fact I think sometimes she forgets her little brother is smaller that's why he gets picked up more and I think sometimes she just wants to be treated the same way as him. I try my best to give her one-on-one and make a big fuss of her when I get chance. she's always made eye contact and responded to her name and she will look at things if I point them so I'm not concerned with any of that when it comes to things like autism and Asperger's.

I wonder sometimes if she is just massively anxious and she's got herself into a state that she can't get out of. I feel a lot of her anxiety is around me and me going away almost or just becoming attached to somebody else which obviously I won't do. the reason I think this is because she's always worrying about me socialising with other children. the reason I don't think that she's autistic at the moment is because she doesn't seem to ever fit into the box and I've looked at many things online. I've done a few quizzes and tests and she never scores higher than 9 out of 40 plus questions so she's very low on the scale. I'm not ruling out completely but it doesn't run in the family there's nobody in the family with anything like that at the moment so she would be the first. I know nobody on here can diagnose her or tell me she's autistic or tell me she's just anxious but I'm really at a loss whether I need to just stop focusing on my parents reactions and whether I should just give her time to change or do I need to get the ball rolling. Is it possible for a child to have extreme anxiety and if it is how do they treat it? if anybody's got any ideas please let me know. also ask any questions that you want to ask about her life and I'll try answer them if you think that can help us get to the bottom of what could be going on here little bit. I think I'm going to phone the doctors tomorrow and perhaps see if they will see us and tell us what they think is going on really because as I said she is still so young and It could well just be her age. I definitely Feel school has improved her and she's happy at school and it's exactly what she needs but obviously compared to some of the children she's not really showing that she can do things as easily as others. I'm sorry if this message doesn't make any sense I've actually just used the microphone to talk into the microphone instead of typing it

Hi OP - didn’t want to read and not reply as I know what it’s like to have a doubt or question at the back of your mind but not be sure if you’re fussing over nothing.

I have a son with ASD / ADHD. He was diagnosed at 8 - got through the first few years of preschool / school ok but as the pressures (and the requirement to sit still and concentrate) grew it all fell apart. For what it’s worth, nothing in your post screams ASD to me but neither does it definitely rule it out (my DS for example is affectionate, not hung up on routines and is quite social - he likes people but finds social cues difficult to interpret).

If you have a doubt do raise it with your doctor - you’re doing the right thing there - even if it’s just to put your mind at rest.

I do think your parents are being massively unreasonable though - you shouldn’t get your child assessed just because she doesn’t meet their view of what ‘acceptable’ behaviour is.

I think the situation/your daughter doesn’t need fixing so you can spend time with your parents but your parents need to change. I wouldn’t let anyone speak to my child like that.

Some children with autism can make eye contact and autism is often under diagnosed in girls.

You need to speak to school and ask to speak to the senco too. Then go to the GPs too.

It’s worth looking at ADD / ADHD also to see if it rings any bells - she’s a bit young for a diagnosis but it may be worth considering. Bear in mind both it and ASD manifest differently in girls so you should look for girl-specific information.

Thanks for the replies. I've done quite abit of research into aspergers and autism. She definitely has a weakness in the socialising department. She also possibly could be painfully shy. My parents are awful with understanding people's feelings at the best of times. Children as far as they are concerned should be good and nothing less. They always go about it in the wrong way. We went in today. My child didn't speak but giggled and waved. Then my dad gets a train set out for my son and is saying wow look at that etc. My DD starts giggling really loud and trying to mimic her brother. Then my dad says you need to speak and stop giggling. Then her face drops and she stares nervously. Then she scratched her nose just as my dad said one of you take a wrapped chocolate to grandma. She ran over and he said you don't touching them now you've picked your nose. Again her face froze. She hadn't picked it but it's itchy at the moment ,(sore from a cold and dry weather,) obviously the correct approach should be to say go wash your hands sweetheart then you can take one over. I sit there and watch the situation get worse and worse. I try and tell her off when she is being stubborn and then they join in and add more comments. I left there's today as my dad said I need to get her squared up and my mum told her santa wasn't going to come now as she's not being good. She told her off for spilling the drink in my son's pushchair too. I've taken her around twice in 6 months due to the fact I hate the atmosphere with it all. I understand they are upset but I also don't like putting my child through it. I then think well maybe she is doing it on purpose.

Socially I feel like she will grow as time goes on. She's definitely improving due to school. She is learning to share more now and she has learnt to tell the teachers when she's upset. She is unfortunately in her own world alot. I think simple things sometimes take her a while. Like lining up in her group etc.

One thing she's started the last two weeks is telling her dad off for breathing! He's not even making a noise. Again this seems like a strange thing to go through.

Reading through all the different things. If any there's some signs of Asperger's in her.but as pp has said she's still really young. Plus Asperger's is high functioning autism and I think if there's something going on here it would be mild. That's why I'm thinking is it anxiety. Her dad is very sensitive and I'm abit introverted but I'm actually not shy. I like chatting to people and mixing but I prefer quieter settings to nights out and wild holidays.

Shot in the dark, but is she a summer-born?

Sorry, wrong thread!

Your parents sound like bullies. I wonder if you need to have a frank discussion about their behaviour and if they can’t /don’t accept that they are making an anxious child even more so then the consequence is limited contact. You need to advocate for your dd. Is she the first grandchild?

@TuppenceDarling

I've told them today I'm not going to bother going to their house on boxing Day to see the family. My mum said she will behave. I said she won't, she will behave how she has today. Then my mum said to her see you have spoilt it all now. I just don't want the stress.

I've tried suggesting they play games with her. Draw and write with her. Sit and cuddle her. They just don't listen. She's not the youngest. My sisters got a 12 and 7 year old. Then mines 4 and my son's 2 in a few days.

Hi OP, I think I recognise you from quite a few posts you've made about your DD along the same lines.

You seem really worried about your daughter, and for that reason I think you should approach the GP or school SENCO. It may help you to worry less.

Didnt want to read and run. Your daughter sounds lovely, maybe a senstive child?

No one can diagnose but I'd think possible Attention Deficit Disorder (inattentive type). Children with ADD struggle to develop inner speech. Inner speech usually develops around five. So maybe a combination of not being able to articulate etc. Have a watch of Russell Barkely ADD essentials for parents.

It can have a huge impact on confidence. As an example I once went to a friends house and put an apple core behind the sink because I was too afraid to ask where the bin was. The sort of logic was that it looked all fitted and and we had an old kitchen and it would show me up not knowing. In reality I just didn't know how to ask and feared being scolded. They really told me off and said we know it was you, I said I didn't and they said we know our child wouldn't do that. The times I did better was when my mum explained to me what would happen (e.g. on my first day of school) and said if you want to play with children don't worry just go and join in. I only remember this as I wrote an article in the school newsletter about it! And also when people actively encouraged me to participate and do activities. It was sort of like I needed permission.

(I think, if I may pontificate about it, this is the subtle sort of gendering that goes on in our society - "girls aren't forthright" type messaging.)

Would speech and language therapy help? My brother had this when a teacher suggested he may have language problems and it helped him.

Definitely side with your daughter not your parents and stay strong.

My DD is 10 and has had selective mutism since she was 3. Read up on it. It's annoying calling it 'selective' as they certainly don't 'select' who they speak to, it's due to anxiety which causes the inability to speak in certain situations. Your parents are making the situation worse behaving like that. My DD doesn't speak to her grandparents either, even though she sees them regularly.

It sounds like you are doing all the right things. Has she been assessed by a SALT? That can be very helpful.

I think your parents are being awful and I wouldn't spent time around them unless they stop picking on your dd in such an unkind way. Poor little mite!

Ask SENCO at school to list any concerns for you, then take it with you when you see your GP with a list of your daughter's behaviours and ask if you can be referred to a speech and language therapist that specialises in childrens' communication issues.

Your parents are being totally vile, see as little of them as possible and don't allow them to be so awful to your DD.
Once you have a professional medical assessment of your DD's needs, you can decide how to proceed with your parents.
Some are better for having a medical reason for their gdc's different behaviour, others refuse to accept any way of parenting outside their own is right, so you'll have to cross that bridge when it appears.

For now, you are being a brilliant parent, you've noticed your DD has some difficulties with communication and you're having them investigated. Don't try and fit her into any diagnostic box with a name, it can take a team of professionals a long time to give a child the correct diagnosis. In the short term, it's not that important what her condition is called, many conditions have traits that overlap and many traits are more easily noticed when a child's anxiety levels are high. What is important at this stage is that her needs are identified and interventions are put into place in school and at home based on the assessment(s) she will have.

You mentioned that your DD had commented on your DH's breathing. She may have noise sensitivity like hypercausis, or it may be a sensory issue. Have a read through this booklet www.falkirk.gov.uk/services/social-care/disabilities/docs/young-people/Making%20Sense%20of%20Sensory%20Behaviour.pdf? and see if she has any sensory issues, if so, do mention them when you ask for referral.
It also contains some calming strategies, some may be useful to help with her anxiety.

Sadly, services are all overstretched and appointments can take a long time. Like every mum whose child doesn't always react to their environment the same way most other children do, you need to be persistent in your requests for help. Don't be fobbed off, your DD's behaviour does warrant investigation. Like many children who aren't behind with schoolwork, disruptive and/or violent, she runs the risk of being overlooked, it's up to you to be the squeaky wheel that requires attention where her needs are concerned.
You're her mum, you're her advocate, you can do it!

Sorry but your parents sound vile. I’d stop any contact between them and your daughter. She’s 4 and they are undermining her self confidence.

Why are you allowing that?

Hi everyone hope you had a lovely Christmas. Sorry for the slow reply. We had my mil and fil over today. I have nothing against them at all but they don't spend much time with my kids. They moved to be with their daughter an hour away when she was pregnant (3 months ahead of me) they do alot of baby sitting and look after her child weekly. My DD has been to their house twice this year for a sleepover. Both times the other grandchild went around. She's very territorial over her nanny and gets abit possessive. you can tell she struggles when my child gets a look in. Last time they were clashing. My DD wasn't speaking for the first few hours but eventually was teasing her cousin by shortening her name. Eventually the cousin told her she would rip her clothes. Then my partner's sister said to her it's because she doesn't like you calling her that. (fair enough)

Today I was talking to mil about how I'm feeling about her being quiet and stuff. She told me her and her daughter have noticed she doesn't show emotions. She said it's perhaps worth getting her checked out. This annoyed my partner and he told his mum she does show emotions. She often won't cry when she's hurt unless it actually hurts though. She bashed her lip at school once and had a fat lip. She still didn't cry. She does cry sometimes though. Like if I tell her off. She also expresses emotion through giving me attitude. She also can laugh and be silly. My partner doesn't think we need to get her seen and he said everyone needs to leave her alone and just give her time. I literally don't know what to do. It feels like all her grandparents fail to understand the bigger picture. One set have no patience or understanding. The other have limited contact and rarely see her. They are judging her because she clashes with her cousin who is their favourite to an extent. Even the carseat in their car is that child's seat. So when my child's been in it (twice) they say you can go in Ella's seat.... I think all these things just add to her anxiety. They have a trampoline at their house (it's called Ella's trampoline) the spare bedroom is Ella's bedroom. At Ella's birthday she was saying to my child, my nanny this,my nanny that. This is why I don't know how to proceed. Would it be wise for me to make an appointment with the health visitor whilst she's at school and not take my child so I can talk about it? Sometimes I feel like if I take her with me it's cruel. Talking about her behaviour Infront of her will make her much more anxious wouldn't it?

Her teachers only concern with her is she needs lots of reminders and forgets what she's supposed to be doing. They are working on that though and when I've asked for updates lately they say she's been fine. They are waiting on me to get her eyes and ears checked though. I'm abit nervous about it all. I'm just hoping constantly that she will improve and settle. I'm just worried for her future. Im just really struggling with not hearing positive things about her. I wish I could get some good news.

@Stompythedinosaur she hasnt. Was is salt?

@Alwayschasingoldenrainbows I have looked into that before and still wonder if she could have it? I agree it's not selective. It's anxiety that traps them. I bet it's so hard for you to explain to people. People are so ignorant!

@BlankTimes thanks for your reply. It's so hard not to try and guess her box but you are right! It's like deep down I know there's something. She's either feeling anxious, painfully shy, suffering from selective mutism or maybe a behavioural problem. I know some things can correct themselves. Schools improved her but obviously she's far from perfect as teachers have mentioned some things to me like concentration and remembering the routine. I'll look on your link thanks

she's definitely able to show emotions and feelings, she's happy to give cuddles and receive cuddles. In fact I think sometimes she forgets her little brother is smaller that's why he gets picked up more and I think sometimes she just wants to be treated the same way as him. I try my best to give her one-on-one and make a big fuss of her when I get chance. she's always made eye contact and responded to her name and she will look at things if I point them so I'm not concerned with any of that when it comes to things like autism and Asperger's

Sorry if Im repeating anybody, I've not read every post in detail.
This is very common with girls with ASD. The eye contact thing isn't always relevant.

She sounds like she feels everything very deeply. I read all your posts, and you describe her in such a lovely way. The way her grandparents treat her sounds horrible, but I can imagine my parents being exactly the same tbh.

I was diagnosed autistic when I was 40. Nobody ever thought I was, because I'm OK socially. Make eye contact, etc.

In reality, things feel so fucking big for me. It sounds like she's still processing the arrival of her brother (which is fine), and is very very overwhelmed with everything at the moment. I'm not saying she's autistic/has aspergers, but I very much relate to what seems to be 'overfeeling' on her part.

When's her birthday btw.

@SomeHalfHumanCreatureThing

Her birthdays Feb the 26th.

It's awful isn't it. Half the battle is people making it an issue for them and refusing to see the bigger picture. I feel like her brothers arrival definitely started it off in her. Maybe it's highly sensitive as someone has pointed out. Do you have to explain to people you have autism? Or is it not obvious onto others. I sometimes think what's the future going to be like for her if she keeps getting upset and not coping in situations by not talking. She is making friends at school but I feel like she probably hasn't quite got the hang on how to socialise properly. Although the teachers don't seem worried about that at all.

It does sound from what you've said that your concerns started when her brother was born. She struggles with relationships with family members that she doesn't see that often, and becomes withdrawn.
I use this checklist with parents (I'm a Senco) as a basis of discussion, and if we think there's more to the child's behaviours than just late development I advise them accordingly. For a child your DDs age, I'd send a referral in to SALT to assess their social communication. I'd also send a referral in to the school nurse. In my LA, going directly to the GP usually results in the GP writing to me for school to refer on!
At this age, and from everything you've said, I wouldn't be over anxious, as your DH has said. I would, however, speak firmly to all the grandparents and point out how their behaviour is impacting on your DD. Suggest she visits your MIL when her cousins are not there. Can granny have a couple of your DDs things there too, maybe a special set of bedding for when she sleeps over, a favourite teddy, book, toy? Try to have these visits regularly. Regarding your parents, they are being inconsiderate and need telling!

Sorry, forgot the link.
www2.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/sites/default/files/folders/documents/virtualschool/processesandforms/resourcesandpublications/CoventryGrid.pdf

In your situation op I would write a list of all your concerns and arrange a meeting with the school senco to go through them. Then do the same with the GP.

Have you been specifically researching autism in girls? Because they present very differently to boys. My autistic 11 year old had a few traits at 4/5, but it only became obvious when she was 10/11 and the list of traits got much longer.

I've no idea about any diagnoses but to be honest put yourself in her shoes.
What would you do if you had to visit virtual strangers who told you off and picked on you as soon as you walked in the door?
How would you feel if you ha to visit another set of large people who made you play with a girl who bullied you and clearly favoured her.
Your daughter is 4yo and I think your dh is right.
Just stop visiting these adults who can't behave themselves. Stand up for your dd.

I'm Autistic and both my daughters are too, we give eye contact and are sociable to a certain extent.
My 9 year old everything has to be on her terms and her rules, she spoils things because of this.
My girls are very literal and don't understand jokes, my 9 year old misinterprets what people say and takes it to heart.
If you have any questions shout x

I agree with what you think that she’s very anxious and this is causing the possessiveness and separation anxiety. Also some signs of ASD and possibly ADHD, they can often all go together in a little mixture. The new baby won’t have caused it but brought it to light.
The grandparents need to understand they have to modify their behaviour to ensure your dd feels comfortable. Sounds like they need help knowing how to do this.
Hopefully there is a good SENCO like the one just upthread! If not GP or approach SALT directly who can both refer.