Library rhymetime for Dads

[Jinglejanglescarecrows]

My local library has just announced 2 Saturday rhymetime sessions it it is doing over xmas for Dads. Now part of me thinks that’s great, encouraging Dad to take little ones to rhymetime. But the other part of me, who happens to be a full time working single mum of two, who would love to go to rhymetime but unfortunately can’t as they’re in the week, feels a little bit pissed off with the concept.

Is it not just reinforcing the traditional dad, working 9-5 monday to fri, not doing many recreational activities with his kids. Wife stays at home.

I’m going to pop in and ask if I can attend with DS 2&3 and they will absolutely say it is fine. The staff are absolutely lovely. But I am I being a bit oversensitive being a bit pissed off by the concept?

But apparently I shouldn’t go as I’m not a dad and it might make the dads feel bad

Yes exactly.

I'd fiercely defend (and actually have) a woman objecting to a man in her mum and baby group it's only fair we respect it the other way round. We can't have it both ways!

It’s not a baby group!!

Yes I’d have had issues with a man at my baby massage course 8 weeks pp. No issues at all in play groups/rhymetime.

In fact, I’ve never seen any playgroup/activity marketed as Mums only. They just happen to be the main people that attend.

I think the only groups I’ve seen that are marketed as mums only groups round here have been the breastfeeding support groups.

I agree with you @Jinglejanglescarecrows that weekend groups are few and far between. I think there is an assumption that at weekends families will be out on day trips/at attractions. I suppose a lot of the staff that run the weekday sessions also have young families and so don't want to be tied into working weekends.

Is it a council-run library? If so, I think they should be more inclusive. Encouraging more dads is great but not at the expense of women who are also working. I have only encountered women-only groups in relation to bfeeding as mentioned by a pp (and even then, dads were welcome to attend with mum to seek help/advice).

A lot of the weekend sessions that I have attended with young DC were extra sessions put on by the normal weekday people. Have you looked on Facebook/hoop for things local to you?

Tbf there is a toddler dancing/singing group that runs a family session once a month on a sat near to me. But it’s 7 pounds for 30 mins whereas rhymetime is free.

Money is tight, particularly since exDH is currently being a twat with maintenance. Maybe once that’s sorted we can go to that?

It is a council run library but it’s mainly run by volunteers and is in a very affluent area, which neighbours my, not so affluent one.

They do the same thing at my local library - the only weekend session is called 'daddy cool' - and it pisses me off too. But when I went back to work after mat leave I looked really hard for something to do on a Saturday morning because I thought it would be nice to have a little ritual for DS and I to start the weekend with some us time, and the only thing that runs is swimming and I'm the only woman in the water (loads on the side to play maid by changing the toddler before and afterwards while dad does the fun bit in the middle ) - so I guess it does seem that there is very limited demand for weekend stuff, and that what is there is mostly dads, so it's hard to blame them for catering to that?

Daddy Cool. How patronising!

Mine is Dad’s Rhymetime - give Mum break for a few hours, which I also find annoying.

No, I can’t blame them for catering to demand. Makes sense. And they are happy for me to attend. Even if they weren’t if me and the boys happened to be browsing at the same time they could hardly object to them dancing along!

I know, it's so patronising! And 'Daddy Cool' comes with coffee and pastries, according to the poster - the weektime ones, which I went to on mat leave, you get a biscuit and a cup of squash. For the child. I guess my local library also thinks dads need bribing into parenting and mums don't!

There are plenty of posts on MN about dads being made to feel unwelcome or excluded from normal playgroups. This sounds like a group set up to counter that so why should women be allowed to go to it? If they let women go it will end up like all other playgroups and dads will be pushed out again.

I really don't see how you can go along unless you would welcome dads at a group aimed at mums and toddlers. You cannot have it both ways.

Request that they put on a group for mums and toddlers on Saturdays if there's a demand for it.

There are no groups for Mums and toddlers. All of the playgroups and groups I went to in the week welcomed Men.

They’re in the minority, like I will be at this group. When I go, which I am!

Also, if you go to rhymetime or a playgroup you don’t have to socialise with the other parents if you don’t want to. Be friendly obviously but you are there to play with your children. Especially when they are little, like mine are.

ExDH works shifts and often takes both of them to a variety of playgroups on his week days off.

I really don't see how you can go along unless you would welcome dads at a group aimed at mums and toddlers. You cannot have it both ways.

Like pp, I have never seen a toddler group that says it is only for women. In practice they nearly are all women (though plenty of grandmothers as well as mothers in my area) but they're all called something like 'parents and toddlers group'. DH went to groups when he was on shared parental leave and he didn't like it but that was because he got uncomfortably fawned over, not because he was told not to come. The only explicitly single sex parenting groups I've ever seen in my area are La Leche League and the Daddy Cool thing I described upthread. It really isn't true that there is some massive need to balance out a load of women's only groups.

I think a session aimed at dads is a great idea, but I agree that there’s shite all organised at the weekends for all parents/guardians who can’t attend stuff in the week and can completely understand your frustration OP.

I also never saw any baby or toddler groups which for for mums only when I was on mat leave. Most of the things I went to were overwhelmingly mums but there were generally one or two dads and sometimes grandparents.

some of them were full of cliquey bitches who excluded newcomers of whatever sexbut that’s another matter

BUT I do understand that they won't happen if there isn't the demand and I too have been surprised to find how many women haven't gone back to work. I've no idea how they afford not to.

Same. I think what I hadn't realised before is that while DH and I together have a similar household income as a lot of the other couples we know, the difference is that ours is 50-50 and theirs is 80-90% earned by the man.

@LisaSimpsonsbff Yes, we're similar and I hadn't realised before amongst friends or NCT group how unusual it was. Dammit I should have married for money instead!

But you're not understanding the difference between equality and equal. Clearly this rhymetime, for dads, has been put on to address a need that has been identified. They don't have to also out one on for mums too. Just like swimming pools are open to everyone but many also run women only sessions but not men only sessions. It's the same thing.

Men clearly aren't going to the general classes for whatever reason and so they are running men only groups. I don't think women should be allowed to go.

Men clearly aren't going to the general classes for whatever reason and so they are running men only groups. I don't think women should be allowed to go.

But the reason they've clearly identified is that men are more likely to be working parents, which is why they're holding this group, unlike all the other ones, at the weekend - so why shouldn't it be for all working parents? You'd have a point if they were putting on a men's group during the week, when the general ones are.

Pee's me off when they do the same things for dads as they do mums but with things like bacon sandwiches. Because men need bribing and women don't eat bacon sandwiches..

The thing is that the dads only session will be filling a specific perceived social need as opposed to a "nice to have for all parents".

But the reason they've clearly identified is that men are more likely to be working parents, which is why they're holding this group, unlike all the other ones, at the weekend - so why shouldn't it be for all working parents?

Have they said it's because dads work during the week though? Whatever the reason, this group is specifically for dads. If op thinks an equivalent should be offered for mums or working parents of either sex then I think she should ask for that, not just go along to a dads only group.

It might well be that there is just no demand for a mums group on a Saturday but that's a different consideration.