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Any catholics on here who can answer a question for me?

136 replies

TrySleepingWithABrokenHeart · 15/12/2019 10:39

I go to church every Sunday and although I take communion, I don’t have the wine.

Is this disrespectful of me? Or is this optional?

I feel like I have a strange fear of it for some reason. I also struggle to share cups etc with other people so the combination of these two things is the reason why.

I definitely don’t want to be disrespectful so I’d be really grateful for your opinions on this. Thanks.

OP posts:
soupforbrains · 15/12/2019 23:21

@KingaRoo I don't know all your answers I'm afraid. I'm not as well informed as I should be. But essentially the belief which sets the RC church apart from the real of the Christians church is that of transubstantiation. Personally I've never been sure about any element of Catholicism and I'm a terrible catholic generally speaking. But I was well taught so I can at least speak the catechism.

lisag1969 · 15/12/2019 23:33

I never take it. Don't like alcohol. Never touch it. X

PanicAndRun · 15/12/2019 23:36

If things haven't changed in some countries Orthodox churches give both and there was no skipping of the wine. The difference is that it is not given at every mass , but at important dates throughout the religious calendar (max 12 times a year?!?) and if memory serves only after fasting and confession . Only children under 7 can skip the confession rule.

It's been a long ,long time and I might be wrong about how things are done now,but doubt it. The Orthodox churches I'm familiar with really dislike change.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Gooseysgirl · 15/12/2019 23:50

Wine is offered at our church but I never take it for hygiene reasons 🤢

Emmapeeler1 · 15/12/2019 23:53

Lapsed Catholic here. It’s always on offer at my mum’s church. Some take it some don’t.

Emmapeeler1 · 15/12/2019 23:58

The wine in mass, is a relatively modern practice maybe 20 - 30 years

I did not know this! But would say it’s at least 35 Wink

Bluesheep8 · 16/12/2019 05:50

I was baptised Catholic and took my first holy communion. Wine was never offered as part of communion by the 4 different priests in our church.

PilatesPeach · 16/12/2019 07:52

In the Catholic Church that I used to go to (Surrey), wine was introduced in the 80s. Since then, it has been offered at every mass weekday, Sunday or Holy Days of Obligation. Totally optional.
Lots of things have changed eg used to have to have gone to confessional recently to have communion eg if had not had a confessional for say 6 months or a year, you could not have communion until you had been to confession, used to be same if you were going to attend a funeral mass & have confession. Used to only be males able to be Altar Attendants/Boys now have Altar Girls.

Wording of mass changed some years ago too eg used to be "it is right to give him thanks and praise" now we say "it is right and just".
Again talking about Home Counties.

Cherylshaw · 16/12/2019 08:03

it's totally optional, it's offered every communion at my chapel but I have never taken it. most people do take it but as I have never I don't want to start now

Her0utdoors · 16/12/2019 08:09

I'd always assumed human flesh was gluten free. Every day's a school day.

hiddenmnetter · 16/12/2019 10:06

@KingaRoo, the belief in transubstantiation is from the earliest history of the church. The term that Christ uses in the Hebrew (so my scripture lecturer told me, I can't recall the actual word now) was like masticate; the literal translation is more like 'Whoever chews and consumes my flesh and drinks my blood will have life eternal.'

The early Roman state in fact used to prosecute the early Christian communities for Cannibalism (this is reported by Suetonius who is not exactly a reliable author, but even if he's the Daily Mail equivalent, it still shows a wide spread awareness of their belief that it was the actual, literal body and blood of Christ) - based on the fact that they were reported to be consuming flesh. It was also a part of what made Christ's command so shocking to the Jews of the day, because Cannibalism was strictly forbidden - it is an abomination (the most severe term the Torah uses to condemn).

There are other stories and midrashes that defend this belief as being part of the patristic history of the church, but I think i've said enough to defend that for now. The actual doctrine of transubstantiation was clarified in the 13th Century (I think? Someone else may know the precise council). The actual working of the belief of transubstantiation was clarified using Aristotelian metaphysics; i.e.: the understanding that things can be essentially what they are, but still have particular characteristics that are accidental and not essential to what they are. So the bread and the wine is transubstantiated; it's substance (in the Greek ousia) is changed into the Body and Blood of Christ; it retains the accidental features of bread, the taste, colour, etc., but has a new essence.

This is in parallel to the human experience of the Holy Spirit - that we retain the same accidental features of who we are, but we can have a new spirit that gives us life, so that we can give others life. We also, can be transformed, although our substance does not change it can be renewed by the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This is also the meaning of the term Sacrament - an external sign of an internal reality; so Baptism is an external sign of a new life that is being given, by the Church and by God, to a new Christian, to being the process of faith. Confession (and the priestly laying on of hands) is an external sign of the internal reality of God washing away our sins. The Eucharist is an external sign of the real presence of Christ which is an internal reality in the Eucharist - retaining those accidental features that make it appear as bread, but it is really His Body and Blood.

@Emmapeeler1 you would be correct - probably more like 50-60 years in reality, as (i'm fairly sure) it's a post-Vatican II change!

Toddlerteaplease · 16/12/2019 12:33

@Fantail it's not the divorce that bars you from communion, it's getting remarried that causes the problem. Unless you have an annulment through the church. However, I don't know of a single priest who would refuse you communion for it.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 16/12/2019 13:06

I know one who would, Toddler. I’m not sure any of the others I know would. I’m fairly certain they wouldn’t.

Toddlerteaplease · 16/12/2019 14:39

My friend who is an archbishop says he won't refuse it to anyone who puts their hands out.

Toddlerteaplease · 16/12/2019 14:41

As he's not going to stand their and question everyone as to wether they are in a state of grace.

TheFallenMadonna · 16/12/2019 14:47

My mum was refused communion when she separated from my dad, years before they divorced, and she married again.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 16/12/2019 14:52

Exactly. Realistically if you’re not otherwise involved in the church the priest isn’t going to know.

It only became an issue because the topic came up at a party outside of mass.

KingaRoo · 16/12/2019 15:14

@hiddenmnetter thank you for the explanation. Very interesting analogy to the Holy Spirit.

I do find it intriguing though how this is taken so literally in the Catholic church when Jesus spoke in parables and metaphorically so much. Also doesn't explain why the flesh "and" wine isn't taken literally.

But thank you as I had never understood how it could be viewed as flesh when it looks like bread/wafer before. The "essence" stuff is interesting.

As an aside, a lot of C of E churches have gluten free wafers.

Halestorm · 16/12/2019 15:21

Irish lapsed catholic here. I've never been offered wine and I've attended thousands of masses. Sometimes a priest might announce that there's' communion wine for coeliacs and the Eucharistic ministers get offered the chalice of wine but no wine for the congregation.

merryhouse · 16/12/2019 15:34

As an aside, a lot of C of E churches have gluten free wafers.

... which strictly speaking they shouldn't, as canon law is very specific on what can be used.

But hey, the expression "broad church" was coined to describe the CofE...

NannyR · 16/12/2019 16:04

Our C of E church has gluten free wafers, but the main bread for the service is just ordinary white, sliced bread.

Toddlerteaplease · 16/12/2019 16:14

My RC cathedral parish has low gluten hosts. They are square and kept in a separate ciborium. I think most parishes have them now. They are not completely gluten free I believe, but low enough that they are ok for Celiacs.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 16/12/2019 16:18

IIRC there was a bit of a mismatch between what was being labelled as gluten free or very low gluten and what is normally understood by those terms.

Emmapeeler1 · 17/12/2019 09:07

That’s fascinating @hiddenmnetter

Didn’t know that about early cannibalism. I wonder what poor souls were being eaten in the name of Christianity!

Someone mentioned the mass wording above - it was changed to a more exact translation of the Latin a few years back. I still accidentally say the old version sometimes, outing myself as not very practising.

hiddenmnetter · 17/12/2019 09:58

@Emmapeeler1 Didn’t know that about early cannibalism. I wonder what poor souls were being eaten in the name of Christianity!

Lol no they weren't cannibals- but the belief was from the earliest time that the bread and wine became the actual Body and Blood of Christ which is why they got the reputation of being cannibals, not that they actually hunkered down on human flesh. It was the body and blood of Christ present with the accidental features of bread and wine 😂