If you work for the 111 service can you answer my question?

[CookieChips]

A thread I've just read reminded me something that happened recently.

My dd was complaining of earache which had gone on for a week so I tried to contact my surgery out of hours. I didn't realise I had been put through to the 111 service. I thought out of hours and 111 were two seperate numbers.

Anyway, I explained everything and was just after some advice on how I can treat her at home.

Waited for a call back. They called back at 2am. Basically demanded I go to a&e. I couldn't as I didn't drive then and had very young children. I had no babysitter on standby. The lady on the phone basically said she would have to pass this on to SS if I didn't go to a&e.

Dd was now fast asleep too.

Eventually after I ended up breaking down crying she booked me in at the out of hours for 7:30 the next morning.

If you work as a caller for 111 why do you feel you need to threaten us when we just want advice.

Just to add I will never call them again.

The 111 service in our area has been taken over by the ambulance service in an attempt to stop the ridiculous calling of ambulances for every little thing and also the knock on effect that sending of everyone to A&E has on ambulances queuing outside. Someone we know who worked as a Paramedic has gone to work for 111. Even he admits that he is finding it very difficult to assess people over the phone (using his extensive medical training) when he is used to seeing people in the flesh. I can't speak about the threats as have not experienced that but that sounds very wrong.

I had similar. When my daughter was around 2 she was ill with a virus and had a very high temp that wasn’t coming down with calpol. I called 111 around 6/7pm and they said they would get someone to call me back. By the time this happened it was 3am!! and the person on the phone told me I must bring her to the hospital immediately. I said she was finally settled and fast asleep (temp had also gone down by this point) I didn’t want to disturb her as this was the first time in days she was sleeping properly and could I bring her at 6/7am once she was awake. They threatened me with social services so I had to wake her up in the middle of the night and take her to hospital. Doctor checked her over and said it was probably just viral and she was over the worst of it already sigh. Learnt my lesson there and will think next time before calling them.

I was told the same thing a few years ago when my daughter had earache. By the time they called back the pain had eased off and I explained this also I had no way of getting to A&E unless I got a taxi which would have cost around £40 there and back which I didn't have. They still insisted social services would be contacted and eventually after discussing with a manager (?) they agreed to accept my decision.

Now I always to straight to A&E when they advise me even if I don't think it's necessary because I worry about the SS threat.

I phoned 111 to clarify the advice on my medication - don't take if you've had chest pain. I'd had chest pain. They sent an ambulance, blue lights, thirty miles to get me. I told them repeatedly on the phone I could get to the hospital in seven minutes in a taxi if I needed to go, they would not listen.

So the ambulance came. They weren't happy. I wasn't happy. They took me to the hospital to wait in a corridor for a few hours. The hospital staff were not happy. The paramedic, before he left, whispered to me 'Don't call 111. Just go to a&e.' So, if I find myself in need again, I'll just go to a&e.

I have used 111 quite a lot for my children when they've needed out of hours. Only once have they gone OTT and sent an ambulance (toddler with chest infection). I usually get out of hours GP appointments which is what I want (I have a toddler with recurrent chest issues and an older child with recurrent UTIs). I wonder if it varies from area to area.

Just to add I will never call them again.
Problem is, you may need to call them again, if your child wakes up with an obvious infection on a Saturday morning- they don't need A&E but it may not wait until Monday. If they need a GP you need to go through 111

@CookieBlue @Newcatmum our experiences are almost identical!

Obviously I will call them if I feel it's an emergency, but never again just for advice. Now I know they are just as knowledgeable as dr Google.

I tend to find they refer you no matter what. My five month old rolled off the bed last weekend - he was fine within five minutes but PFB and I wanted advice. I called, and the lady who answered basically agreed he was fine (he was babbling in the background while she was asking me if he was bleeding from his ears), but checked with a clinician who said take him to out of hours. They then proceeded to name ooh surgeries a train ride away. I asked for a local one, bc I'm on mat leave, and was given an appt a quick cab ride away. Turn up for the appt - ooh had never heard of us, and checked and we'd been booked for a town 30 mins drive away!

What's worrying was that the receptionists said this happened all the time. People walk in with 111 appointments that never get booked or get booked for somewhere random, and they get the abuse. They were lovely and got my baby checked by a Dr within the hour, but the whole process was ridiculous.

Iv rang them alot..

For a GP to do a house call, they have been very good, every time.... (For Mil)

For me once, they called an ambulance (needed)

For my auntie, Ambulance (Needed)

One time partner spoke to 111 , 3 times they kept saying we will ring you back, i didnt want to sit in a&e, as felt so rough. Anyway, partner literally put me in the car while waiting back for 111 and lucky he did. Hospital said if i had fallen asleep that night i wouldnt of woke up, doctor rang me about 6 hours later

I wouldnt go on the advice of 111 ever.
They arent trained ..

But they are handy if you need a out of hours home visit urgently, for antibiotics on a Friday night or a Saturday for example. Well in our case they were

I've not had any bad experiences with them, but if the threatened to call social service because I chose to delay going to A&E for a child who had improved and was sleeping my reply would be 'that's fine, I'm happy to justify my decision to them'. Unless your child is already on some sort of child protection register social services aren't going to take it any further surely?

I called 111 asking for details of any local out of hours dentist, as I had no way of getting to the hospital with dental service some distance away. My own dentist recorded message had referred me to 111.

They point blank refused to tell me anything till I (painfully) went through all my symptoms and they "diagnosed" me as needing a dentist

I wonder if it different in different areas of the county. I once phoned 111 for my child late at night. I knew she didn't need A&E, because I am a paediatric nurse and could see that she was fine despite a worrying-looking thing. DH was convinced she needed an ambulace immediately because he is a hypochondriac. I expected 111 to say she needed an ambulance because she had a 'red flag' symptom and because they are notorious for saying everything needs an ambulance/ A&E, but I reasoned that at least I could blame 111 when I turned up at A&E (I know people who work in my local paediatric A&E) with a well child. They actually believed me that she was ok despite what their algorithm probably said, and arranged an out of hours GP appointment for me, which was a perfect outcome really because it calmed DH down.

@BuzzShitbagBobbly

To be fair, you could've googled that...

Or gone through the NHS website.

I will never forget the time I called 111 because my ds had a fever of 42 and I couldn’t get it down, I didn’t know whether it was a dr or a&e. When asked if he was reacting to light I confirmed he was distressed by it and wouldn’t follow instructions to put his chin to his chest, they sent an ambulance and we were blue lighted in, ds had meningitis. The ambulance crew was able to spot a rash that hadn’t been there minutes before that was so faint it was barely there.

Ds got treated so quickly because of that call that no matter how many times they tell me to go to a&e and I feel it’s unnecessary i still appreciate the service being there and use common sense as to whether it’s needed or not

I know nothing about this but surely the SS threat is bullshit? Maybe, just maybe, if you tell 111 that you absolutely won't be going to A&E, then perhaps they could trigger something. But if you say you relent and you will take your child, then no one is seriously going to check up? Surely A&E staff haven't got time to be taking calls to expect so and so, and then to keep checking to see if so and so has arrived? I just don't believe it.

I was once bitten by a wild mouse. I phoned because I knew I needed antibiotic cover. As well as being sent to OOH (who actually referred me on to a&e for tetanus) I was advised to keep my arm in a sling. I didn't, because I already felt stupid.

DD had chicken pox but needed an OOH appointment because tonsillitis came into play & needed antibiotics.

I was advised to administer Nurofen.

As a qualified Ofsted nursery nurse of 20+ years experience of childrens health I went batshit at her on this advice.

They did this to me too. I called them, 99% sure I was taking DD to A&E anyway and they told me I had to present her to my local hospital within 4 hours or SS would be informed.

Got to A&E and DD threw up all over both of us in the waiting room so we spent the next 4 hours sat there in vomit covered clothes, only for the Dr to decide she was totally fine and we probably didn't need to come in anyway.

Threatening parents with SS really isn't the way to calm them down when they phone concerned for their child's health.

God I've never had to call them about my child but it sounds awful

111 is provided by different operators in each area. Each one (private or ambulance service) operates a different staffing model. The training some services offer is woeful.
The call assessors (not dispatchers) use a algorithm type system that has been created by senior clinicians (paediatric consultants, cardiology consultants, trauma consultants and so on)
Imho what the system actually needed was frontline input from paramedics and nurses etc that under take initial triage daily. The system is set to be risk averse, but then fails to recognise serious issues in other cases.
The threat to call SS asfaik does not happen in our area, although all call assessors have access and guidance on when to pass a safeguarding referral, these are passed internally to qualified staff that then make the decision as to if the referral needs following up with an external agency. It could well be that a safeguarding referral and a ss referral are being confused here.
111 when ran well, with appropriate staffing levels, with knowledgable clinician support, with interagency working, with engaged healthcare providers, with local alternative services... is an excellent idea in principle. In reality the alternative pathway options aren't always there, the funding has been cut, private providers are looking at profit over staffing levels and therefore the system says you need to go to a&e, oh you can't get there? We'll tell the ambulance service to send you an ambulance then.