As an expat living here for 10+ years here's my two cents

[Rainbowhairdontcare]

This count is too divided. It's the flash of the classes and the poor vs the rich. And then the ones who are doing better and want to aspirationaly see as "middle class".

You have to see beyond just two parties and see the policies. I think the NHS is not as great as you think, privatisation is not the end of the world.

What's really stalling this country via the lack of social mobility. Wages are too low for how expensive life is. Rent is and childcare can be crippling.

But above it all, you should move beyond the the "the heartless rich Tories" and the "benefit scrounging working classes". The country is all of you (and mine I guess as I've naturalized).

". I think the NHS is not as great as you think, privatisation is not the end of the world"

Unless you can't afford to pay....

"What's really stalling this country via the lack of social mobility. Wages are too low for how expensive life is. Rent is and childcare can be crippling."

If we raise wages ... costs rise... Because the cost to run the business rises...

How do you solve that problem?

privatisation is not the end of the world

Agree. I have lived in 2 other places with a private system and they were far superior to our NHS. No one abused it because they had to cough up for it.

Having lived in this coutry for a while, I’ve also noticed a lot of pearl clutching and generally vilifying people perceived to be of a lower class. As much as I like living here, I do find that annoying.

Where I one from we have a mixed system. We're considered a "poor country" but yet our public system is the same as the NHS and doesn't cost a penny... My DM had heart surgery that way and my uncle was treated from cancer. Because of my mom's heart condition she can't get private insurance. But the levels of care are faulty similar. Going private gets you a nicer hotel and more nurses.oh and medication is branded, IMO all.a but of a waste BUT we fully have the option to choose whatever we want, something that doesn't exist here and I think would be a solution to how overcrowded some hospitals are (and how I was left with no bed even though my uterus was literally rotting away). Something I ended up treating back home because NOBODY would refer me to.

Rainbow, Brits just flatly refuse to even talk about a private system. They have all seen too many John Grisham movies with poor Americans suing massive ruthless medical companies and dying 2 minutes after they get justice.

Private and a parallel system for those out of the private loop, which gives an identical level of service, is the way to go. Those who can need to take responsibility for their own medical needs via insurance. Those who genuinely can't should have their contributions paid for or wavered.

Exactly crazy I can never understand why they can't see that such a system exists and works in other parts of the world...

Also an expat. I 100% agree. I also want to add that the British need to learn to take responsibility for their own lives instead of thinking the state (I.e. other people who earn more) is responsible for paying for the majority of their basic needs. The class system also needs to be rejected, it’s holding the entire country back. Does it really matter if someone speaks in a Yorkshire accent so long as everyone can understand them?

@00100001 then the government can bring down living costs by removing tax exemptions for land and property removing the temptation to over inflate house values.

the British need to learn to take responsibility for their own lives instead of thinking the state is responsible for paying for the majority of their basic needs. The class system also needs to be rejected, it’s holding the entire country back

This ^

Which countries do you think the private plus state healthcare works in?

The brits are the state. We pay for it we benefit from it. Long live the state and the things it provides for those who wouldn’t survive in a capitalist privatised environment.

France Germany, Switzerland to an extent and Mexico

Singapore.

Which countries do you think the private plus state healthcare works in ?

Australia's Medicare system works pretty well. It's funded by a 2% levy on residents' taxable income . Higher income earners pay an additional levy if they do not have private health insurance. About 50% of the population has private health cover , so Medicare only has to cover the other half.

The system isn't perfect, but I can't remember the last time I saw an Australian child lying on the floor of a hospital. Public patients get the same care as a private patient - the only difference is that public patients have a waiting time for elective surgery .

DH and I don't have private health cover but we have excellent health care. We see our gp for no cost and we can see any doctor that we choose. My DH had two operations last year and only waited for about a week for each one.

But you also kill entrepreneurship (IMO). When I first arrived I was surprised of the levels of poverty of a first world country (and this was before the austerity cuts)

The class system is the reason so many businesses prefer to employ foreign staff. They’re essentially classless to British eyes. It’s just not acceptable to have working class people serving you in a fancy restaurant or looking after your baby. And yes, I have heard this voiced out loud. It’s not something that’s even under the surface.

As for a parallel public/private system. I cannot see anyone voting for this. You’re asking half the country to pay for something that they currently get for free, while the other half continue as they are.

@Basilicaofthemind

Oh wow! Never occurred to me but I can see how the foreign staff thing works

I’ve also had a number of positive experiences with the NHS so can’t relate to the negatives. Admittedly, we do use private healthcare some of the time too.

The NHS is an article of faith for the British, it is untouchable politically. The Tories tinker round the edges, and underfund it, but dare not attempt any serious reform. And despite the hyperbole of the left, they won't be selling it off any time soon.

The fact that there are plenty of health care models that are clearly better, and involve elements that like insurance or some form of moderate up front cost, doesn't really penetrate politically.

I agree on wages, and particularly on housing costs, which are wildly out of line. This is due to the political cowardice of both the left and the right (but mostly the right). The left won't admit that immigration on the level we've had it is pushing up demand, and the left and the right have refused to free up planning restrictions to allow the building boom that is needed. Further, the right gets its vote from the property owning classes, and can't afford to have the housing bubble burst.

I also think the right inflicted economically unnecessary austerity, and I say that as someone who despised Corbyn and voted Tory yesterday in the election!

As a Brit currently living in the US, I've also realised how much people take for granted in the UK. I think the NHS (as a concept) is amazing, but in addition to needing more funding, people need to accept that it exists to serve real medical needs, not to sort you out when you've drunk too much, got a minor cut on your leg/an insect bite.

I know people who work in the NHS and the above examples really do happen in Minor Injuries Units/A & E, adding to the waiting times for the truly ill people.

I also wish they'd implement 30-minute annual physicals so a patient meets with their doctor once a year and discuss their entire health. That's worked so well for my family in the US, you address so much in a single visit, schedule any necessary blood tests, review medicines, etc. and we usually don't need to go back in for months (unless someone gets really ill).

I think it would really cut the appointment waiting times at GP's surgeries, having a 10-minute visit for every ailment just doesn't seem to work.

Yes 10 mins is too short.

The foreign staff Thing. Hmmm, I don't think it's a class thing , though we do have school kids who think it's cool to not work and disrupt class. Would anyone want to employ them. Surely the foreign workers come from somewhere where the salaries are lower and they are the brighter ones with a bit of go. The lazy ones are still there in the foreign countries.

That's also because there isn't a policy of preventive medicine. I agree with only 19 mins and needing separate appointments for different ailments

@Stooshie8 and here we go... Let’s have a dig at the working class... Surely they’re all disruptive at school and good for nothing in the workplace