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Original poster

Unbearable pain in elderly woman

24 replies

RapunzelsRealMom · 08/12/2019 15:25

I'm looking for any advice from either medical people or others whose elderly relatives may have experienced something similar to MIL.

First though, please note that she is under hospital care - I’m not asking for advice from strangers online rather than medical professionals.

MIL is 88 and quite frail in general. Up to now, she has lived independently without professional support, so she’s been able to cook, look after herself etc.

She’s currently in hospital - has been for 4 or 5 weeks - due to horrific back pain and no one can find where it’s coming from. She’s had xrays and an MRI scan - no tumours, nothing sinister, some osteoarthritis but NOTHING that would indicate pain at this level.

She is on the maximum dose of morphine that her body weight can take. Even this doesn’t help. She whimpers and cries at the pain all the time. It’s absolutely heart breaking. Poor DH and BIL are really struggling to watch her like this.

What on earth could be causing this pain?

Here’s where I’m about to sound like the worlds biggest bitch:
How can morphine not affect her pain? It’s not paracetamol ffs.
When she’s crying and whimpering, her heart rate isn’t increased- I thought horrific pain affects heart rate, breathing, etc
Could she possibly be faking, maybe for attention? I know I sound horrible!!! I’m really sorry and ashamed that these thoughts are entering my head.
If she’s faking, she’s amazing at it. The effort that it would take to constantly put on that act would be exhausting!

If she’s not faking, where the hell is this pain coming from? Doctors can find nothing wrong. They want to discharge her soon but how can she live in that state?

OP posts:

Purplewithred · 08/12/2019 15:32

Is she fully mentally with it?

Why might she be faking?

Original poster

RapunzelsRealMom · 08/12/2019 15:45

Mentally she's sharp. Recently been a bit wobbly but we're putting that down to the morphine.

Why might she be faking? She gets lots of attention, her sons are there every day which isn't sustainable as they have to get back to normal with work etc.
You know what's it's like when a loved one is in hospital- everyone rallies round, general life is put on hold, etc.

I'm not saying that I think she is faking; it's just something that has occurred to me as a possibility

OP posts:

MNHQ

LilyMumsnet · 08/12/2019 16:01

We're just moving this over to chat for the OP.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General health

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 08/12/2019 16:03

Have the pain management team been asked to advise?

I think you should ask that she's referred to them to see if better analgesia can be found

Poissonpoison · 08/12/2019 16:06

Yep, pain team need to get involved. Morphine is only one type of drug, there are plenty of others which work in different ways.

Poissonpoison · 08/12/2019 16:06

Ps she doesnt have osteoporosis does she?

SalitaeDiscesa · 08/12/2019 16:07

Morphine is not effective for all types of pain; but it does reduce the respiration and heart rate, so can mask the outward signs of severe pain.

Puddlelane123 · 08/12/2019 16:09

Has she had an MRI with contrast? Or a CT scan?

I second the suggestion of asking for input from the hospital pain team. How are the nursing staff responding to it all? Did anything seem to trigger the pain when it first began?

newdeer · 08/12/2019 16:10

My dad was in excruciating pain all the time and morphone didn't touch it. It was due to a bone spur that had grown on his spine digging into the highly sensitive nerves in his spine. He had an operation to remove the spur and the relief from the pain was almost instant. Ask for a bone X-ray to see if this has happned to her. It's something that happens in old age. My dad is also in his 80s.

Original poster

RapunzelsRealMom · 08/12/2019 16:13

There was no trigger, no fall or anything that can be linked to the pain starting.

She doesn't have osteoporosis, just osteoarthritis.

The pain team have been involved. They've tried a few different things. Right now she has a morphine patch and oramorph. They talked about 'blockers' but then said they wouldn't be suitable.

The nurses are great but they and the docs seem to be at a loss. They want to discharge her (in fact, they did discharge her but she was back in within 2 days) as there's nothing to treat.

OP posts:

HarrietSchulenberg · 08/12/2019 16:14

My Mum is 80 and was hospitalised for a month with similar symptoms 2 years ago. It took weeks to diagnose but was eventually deemed to be a deterioration in the fluid sac surrounding one verterbra. It was horrifically painful and took ages to diagnose, during which she couldn't move. She was bounced between medical and surgical teams but the cause only showed up after a third set of xrays and a second MRI scan.

She didn't require surgery, in the end, and was treated medically. She still has to use morphine patches but is now mobile again, although it has left her with a crooked spine that physio relieves but hasn't fixed.

Hope your MIL is diagnosed and treated properly soon.

slipperywhensparticus · 08/12/2019 16:16

I'm assuming they have checked her kidneys and everything

GlamGiraffe · 08/12/2019 16:17

Morphine does not work on all types of pain. Pain such as neuropathic pain (nerve pain) which can have no obvious origin can be excruciating. Typical drugs associated with analgesia such as morphine, tramadol and codeine are not particularly effective for thus type of pain and it is often better treated with drugs more commonly used for conditions like epilepsy. Is morphine the only drug your MIL is being given? How is she describing the pain? When did it start and did thus coincide with anything physical or lifestyle wise?
These are all very important points to consider.
This is very important information for the pain specialists.
If/when she is discharged she will need assistance and possibly occupational therapy. She will need a care package. You need to insist this is arranged

Original poster

RapunzelsRealMom · 08/12/2019 16:20

Thanks for all the comments.

Re care package: this has been set up for her going home.

OP posts:

HarrietTheFly · 08/12/2019 16:28

Do you think she might not feel able to live independently anymore and wants some help/is scared of being discharged?

HarrietTheFly · 08/12/2019 16:29

Assuming the pain doesn't actually have a physical cause that is.

HarrietTheFly · 08/12/2019 16:30

Although must add, I live with chronic pain and it took years before they found out why. It isn't always obvious I suppose.

Marcipex · 08/12/2019 16:35

Morphine doesn’t work for neuropathic pain.

HamptonThought · 08/12/2019 16:58

I had morphine after an operation. I swear it had no impact on ym pain whatsoever. I was in agony and remember calling the nurse after twenty minutes asking when it was likely to start having an effect and she was stunned it has had no impact.

Original poster

RapunzelsRealMom · 08/12/2019 17:26

DH visited her this afternoon and says the morphine is now 'taking the edge off' her pain so she's not currently crying and moaning but still in significant pain,

She also had ANOTHER X-ray today so perhaps there will be more news over the next couple of days.

Since FIL died, about 5 yrs ago, she had periodically said she wants to die. Now she says it daily. It's very worrying. I think she or DH should tell doctors that she's saying this so much. I'm not sure what they would or could do but maybe something.

I've had severe pain in the past but I've always known it was temporary so, as humans, I think we can cope with that. To see no end to excruciating pain could make the happiest person suicidal!

OP posts:

DaveMinion · 08/12/2019 20:56

There is new research that morphine doesn’t work for around 20% of the population hence why you still feel the pain. So it may well be the case for her.

No idea what could be causing it though (I work in theatres). Hope she is sorted soon. Pain like that is not good and I’ve seen it myself when morphine just doesn’t help in the slightest. No one believes people because it’s morphine.

Veterinari · 08/12/2019 21:01

@RapunzelsRealMom
Morphine is not effective against neuropathic (nerve) pain.
For that she needs gabapentin or amytriptilline - speak to a pain specialist

Poissonpoison · 09/12/2019 12:59

Nortyptaline is also very helpful - as it's an antidepressant it may also help with mood. Gabapentin and pregabalin have just been moved about a bit so she may struggle to be prescribed them but it's worth asking.

My relative was in severe pain and it turned out she had several spinal fractures- it can be common in older women.

Poissonpoison · 09/12/2019 13:01

To see no end to excruciating pain could make the happiest person suicidal!

Absolutely. I live with chronic pain and often the psychological impact can be the worst bit. Pain professionals are the next stop, I really hope they find something to make life more bearable. If it persists there are all sorts of classes offered which address the best way to live with chronic pain (I found them utterly useless, but they do exist!)

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