8 year old struggles to fall asleep

[Electrocute1980]

Just wondering if anyone has any advice for me. DD 8 is having terrible trouble getting to sleep at nights just now and I just don't know what else to try for her. She is a worrier and the later it gets the more she worries about being tired for school and the harder it is for her to fall asleep. I try to remain calm so I don't increase her anxiety but it makes no difference. She's gone through phases of this before but it's every night just now and it's absolutely exhausting - I'm getting no evening to myself as I'm up and down the stairs to her multiple times because she calls me up and is upset because it's getting later and she can't get to sleep. I reach a point where I'm so tired I need to go to bed so I end up going in the spare room with her and she's asleep within 10 minutes.

We have a good bedtime routine which has been the same for years, no screens after 6pm, stories read together before bed, lavender on pillow, she has a night light and a children's meditation CD but nothing is helping. She says nothing is upsetting her at school, there haven't been any changes at home. She runs about with her little brother and we walk to and home from school every day, she's very active and always dancing and cartwheeling.

The only possible thing I could think of is that it's hormone related (she has been going through puberty early, we were under a consultant endocrinologist but we were discharged when she turned 8). Is that a thing in puberty, trouble sleeping?

If anyone has been through this or has any advice I'd be very grateful!

What about getting her a set of Mayan worry dolls? I think they are an Amazon. You tell your worries to the dolls and then put them under your pillow and they keep the worries from you.

I’d speak to the endocrinologist about melatonin.

What time does she go to bed? My just turned 9 year old sometimes struggles to get to sleep. When I spoke to friends parents we were putting her to bed quite early compared to her friends.

Reading to herself/talking books?
Or just lie with her in the spare room for 10 mins til she's asleep at normal bedtime rather than waiting til it's so late.

Precocious puberty is associated with decreased melatonin.

OP, you both have my sympathy. Both my DSs were like this at that age. DS1 used to cry wth frustration. I told him it was actually fine to rest instead. You don't need to sleep as much as you need to rest your mind, so a long, soothing relaxation tape or self-hypnosis will work. (It's a bit of a white lie. We know sleep is better than rest but it helped break the cycle of DS worrying that he couldn't sleep.)

You could also put her bedtime back a bit. Let her stay up half an hour later. Also, encourage her to read (books not audio or screens) for as long as she likes and turn her light out when she feels sleepy.

You could maybe try hypnosis. It helped DS a bit.

If you are religious, prayers help. If not, just ask her to tell you something that worried her or went badly each day, something that pleased her or went well and something she is thankful for. This practise helps get worries in perspective and gives you a chance to support her, then end on a more positive note.

Also, check the temperature. If the room is slightly too cool, it's harder to sleep. A weighted blanket or any extra fleecy layer might help.

What time are you putting her to bed?

Can she listen to Calm or Headspace before she drops off? My son seems to like listening to rainfall or other white noise when he can’t drop off.

I would also just get in with her at the beginning of bedtime rather than after she is worked up and it’s late, you can break that habit later. Poor girl, anxiety is bloody awful.

Have you spoken to the GP? CBT can be really helpful x

OP if you’re under a consultant do ask about melatonin. Melatonin is the sleep hormone that builds up in your body during the course of the day - when it reaches a certain level it tips the balance and this tells your body it’s time to sleep. If it doesn’t build up to the right levels you don’t feel ready to sleep.

For different reasons (ADHD) my DS has this prescribed. He wouldn’t sleep until late and woke 4-5 times a night before he had it. He finds it incredibly helpful (he’s 13 now and knows his own mind)

It’s worth noting here that melatonin is prescription only in this country. In the rest of Europe, Canada and the US it’s available freely in health food shops and pharmacies. You can’t overdose on it - it has no side effects as it’s a hormone. If you happen to be abroad it’s worth stocking up (and of you ever speak to airline staff they all use it to combat jet lag).

Other than that I’d try and deal with the anxiety somehow. Audiobooks?

Hell - there is absolutely nothing to feel bad about letting her in your bed. It’s so easy to think you’re ‘giving in’ - but if it works, it works! No guilt

@Electrocute1980 we had exactly that, it got gradually worse over a year or so: after I had spent a few nights on her floor / together in the spare room I decided enough was enough. She would get so anxious, having proper panic attacks about not being able to sleep, which then made the whole thing worse etc . My daughter too has a tendency for worrying, but was never anxious about anything specific, but then became very anxious about 'what if I can get to sleep' which stopped her from sleeping. We had tried everything except GP.

I have written on here about this before: I gave her Valerian Drops (Vogel Dormeasan Valerian Drops from Boots or Holland&Barrett) - the drop form means you can dose them really low /adjust as needed. Yes I know the bottle says for adults, I extensively googled this beforehand. The Valerian just took the extreme edge off the anxiety, and helped her to be a little bit calmer. It did not work overnight, it was a gradual thing and took maybe a year of a dose of drops in apple juice (they taste VILE) 30 mins before bedtime. Once the whole routine had settled, I was gradually decreasing them unknown to her, and eventually she decided to stop them. I'm sure that there was some placebo effect in play as well. Now she just has the odd day (like before starting school) when she comes down and hour or two after going to bed and asks can she have some drops. But the stress and anxiety about sleep has gone now.

My 9 year old has the same thing, he's always been a night owl but just hates the lying awake in bed endlessly worrying about not going to sleep. It has been regularly as late as 11pm though back to about 10.30 at the mo, and as he gets older other kids his age are beginning to catch up with him in terms of late to sleep. But I remember when he was 3 and about to go into reception (summer born) really hoping that starting school would tire him out enough that he would sleep earlier - it didn't. We have tried so many things over the years, follow all the sleep hygiene rules, but nothing makes any difference really. I hate it for him. It's quite a struggle to get him out of bed for school in the mornings but he doesn't seem tired in the day. People have suggested trying to get melatonin prescribed but it seems a silly thing to go to the gp and get a referral for - whenever we have talked to the school nurse or any medical professionals they just repeat the same no screens in the evening, warm bath before bed, etc etc stuff that we do anyway. He did see a paediatrician last year about stomach pain which was thought to be constipation, and related bedwetting, which might have been the route to go down to get melatonin, but the stomach problems eased and the bedwetting has finally stopped (praise the Lord!) so he's been discharged.

So no advice really, but you're not alone!

Thank you for all the

@MrsPatrickDempsey She has a set of worry dolls which she loves playing with but they don't seem to help with the night time thing unfortunately. She loves cuddly toys and I did see a cute monster toy where you write down your worry and post it into his tummy or something so might look into that.

@Ketomeato unfortunately her endocrinologist discharged us earlier this year so I think I'd have to get re-referred. If I can avoid that I will as she hated feeling like she was different from her friends and that there's something wrong with her. If things don't improve I might have to though. He never mentioned it being associated with decreased melatonin but she wasn't having trouble sleeping then so maybe it just never came up.

@mynameisigglepiggle week nights she is in bed by 8 then we read together for a bit. I put on her relaxation cd and she's allowed to read for a bit, til 8:30 or so. Weekends she goes to bed at 9pm. Is that early in comparison to others?

@raspberryk She has a mid-sleeper cabin bed so I can't lie in with her. I don't really want to start putting her to bed in the spare room but I guess I could try having a cut off point and doing this - say if she's not asleep by 9pm.

@newdeer thank you. DD also gets to the point of tears as she is frustrated she can't sleep. I will try saying to her about rest being just as good to try and take some of the pressure off. Part of me thinks try a later bedtime but then she's seems tired by 8pm and ready for bed. Maybe I am putting her too early, I don't know. She loves to read and I encourage that but she says that doesn't help as she is enjoying the story so much she doesn't want to sleep! We are not religious but I do encourage her to tell me something good about her day and something she wasn't happy with - we do this after school so maybe I'll try doing it at bedtime to see if that helps.

If anything, her room is the warmest in the house as it's in the middle. I did think about a weighted blanket but she's always too warm and kicks off her duvet!

@LeekMunchingSheepShagger weeknights it's 8, lights out 8:30 ish, weekends 9pm. Is that early for an 8 year old do you think?

@WifOfBif my DS 3 has had a white noise machine in his room since he was a baby and he loves it. I never thought of trying it for DD, I could leave my iPad in her room til she's asleep I guess. Worth a try!

If I could get in with her I would but she's in a mid sleeper cabin bed. We are changing it in the new year so she'll have a double bed in her room which will be much easier if things are still tough as I can get in beside her.

I'm holding off taking her to the docs as with the precocious puberty she already feels she's different from her friends and is always asking me if she's weird or if there's something wrong with her. But I will take her if nothing helps.

@Catgotyourbrain I'm in the uk so would need it on prescription. I will go back to get re-referred to her consultant if I need to but I'd rather avoid that if I can for her sake. I know melatonin works though, my dad has it for my younger step brother who has adhd.

Im definitely going to try to work on the anxiety with her so will look into books/audio books for this.

And thank you - so many people have said I'm wrong to just let her sleep in with me but I figure it's not forever and in this house we've always done whatever works to maximise everyone's sleep!

@GlowWine your poor dd, that sounds awful. My dd is definitely the same with anxiety about not falling asleep but thankfully not to the level of panic attacks, that must have been horrendous.

So glad things are better for her now. I had thought about some kind of drops, Bach's rescue remedy or something but not really looked into it. I'll have a look at the ones you mentioned though.

@Wincher yes, it's the lying there worrying that upsets her. It's awful isn't it. Some nights we have been 11pm til she's dropped off. Days where you'd think she'd be tired - when she's had school, PE, dance class etc - are sometimes the worst nights!

Thank you x sorry some of you are going through the same thing but it is good to know we're not alone!

I had a chat with her this morning about things we could try. She going to do some yoga with me or go for a walk with her dad before bed. We are going to take the gro clock out of her room as she feels stressed by the stars counting down. I'll put on some white noise tonight instead of her meditation CD to see if that helps.

Thanks again for all the replies

This is amazing Bach RESCUE Night Spray, 20ml - Flower Essences for a Natural Night's Sleep www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B001EIQ5FQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_UT72DbG6Z0RTY?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

My dd went through a stage like this at 8 or 9. Scared of being alone and wanted to
‘Feel protected’

We just ut a bed in our room, and one of us sat up there until she went to sleep.

They can’t help being scared

I was like that as a child and still am now. Takes me hours to fall asleep. I used to read in bed as a child. Now I listen to podcasts. I think it's worth telling her that if she's in bed she's still resting even if she's not asleep. A GP told my mum this when she took me as a child and then I didn't worry about not getting much sleep.

I was like that as a child. I had no physical problems or worries; I just wasn't tired at bedtime, and lay there awake for hours. I have survived!!

Also OP - I know its not the done thing to have an audiobook on all night because it's thought to be stimulating - but my DS won't sleep without - but for him it works because its the same book over and over (I know ) Stephen Fry reading Harry Potter in our case - but it used to be How to Train your Dragon. For him its not 'stimulating' because its so familiar if that makes sense. Just thought I'd make the point so you don't discount audiobooks on low all night.

Thanks you all Well - last night DH and DD went for a long walk together, we made bedtime nearer 8:45, took away the gro clock and she chose a rainstorm on the white noise app. She was asleep within 10 minutes!! She woke naturally at around 7am and was so well rested and in such a good mood she came downstairs and did her homework! We'll see what tonight brings but hopefully it's maybe broken the cycle a bit for her.

Thank you again for all the replies - I've got plenty of ideas to try now if things go downhill again

My DS who is 12 was prescribed Melatonin earlier this year. He had real difficulties with sleep too. He has been under an endocronoligist since he was 4. Always had issues getting to sleep which I always put down to the injection and thyroxine. Melatonin has been brilliant. Speak to your GP, do your research about it and head to GP armed with reasons your DD needs it. Assuming of course your new regime doesnt work because if it does then thats brill

Ahh that’s a fantastic update! Long may it continue x

@WifOfBif unfortunately not! We did yoga together before bed, she was all relaxed. We read Christmas stories(!) in her room, put the rain noise on, all good, she was very sleepy. Went downstairs and was chatting to DH and about half an hour later a tearful little voice called me upstairs, she couldn't get to sleep Wanted to avoid it escalating for her so just popped her in the spare room and I came to bed with her and read til she fell asleep. No worries, we'll try again tonight!