If you’ve had a relative in a care home paying their own fees

[LookImAHooman]

First of all, I’m sorry they’ve had to be there.

We have a relative in a nursing home who is fully self-funded due to the capital they have.

This will deplete over the next few years until they reach the threshold for financial support (about £24k).

We’re happy with the home; it took quite a lot of searching out due to the nature of our relative’s illness, which is classed as rare and has implications for care and behaviour.

We’ve been told that if a LA has someone in this situation and they believe it’s in the person’s best interests for them to stay in the current nursing home, even if it costs over the normal LA rate, they can fund the resident staying there. The home are fully aware that self-funding won’t be possible after a few years (as does happen with quite a few people, I imagine) and have been fairly reassuring without going into the specifics.

Has this happened to anyone here? Also, what do we do when the estate is approaching the £24k threshold - how far out should we request the financial reassessment with the LA? As said, we’re a number of years away from this scenario but I’m
dwelling on it tonight and it would always be reassuring to hear any positive stories.

Hi there,
In terms of staying in the home, the Council would only agree to this if her needs couldn't be met in another home in its area which is within its usual funding rate ( or where it has block purchased beds). Otherwise you would need a 'third party top up' in place where a relative or other person pays the difference between the existing care home's fees and what the mCouncil will pay. But what your relative pays will be on a siding scale until their assets reach the lower threshold for paying contributions.

And you should let the council know when your relative is within a few months of the capital reaching the upper threshold. So the council has time to carry out the necessary assessments.

You may have already looked into it but depending on the nature of the illness some patients are covered by continuing healthcare www.nhs.uk/conditions/social-care-and-support-guide/money-work-and-benefits/nhs-continuing-healthcare/

That’s really helpful, thanks. From what we’ve been told unofficially by different professionals involved to date and from our own knowledge of finding a home, there’s only one other option within the LA familiar with the condition or caring for people with it but when we were looking they didn’t have any spaces available within the timeframe we needed. I hope that would help the case. It’s also the other side of the county.

Thanks, bionic. Not there yet but they do get annual assessments for it.

Obviously if/when it comes to it, adhoc assessment will be done - but right now it’s something to do with a formality or tick box for the home to say it’s been done.

Ask the home to specify, in writing, what their policy is.

We've a home locally that charge almost double what most other homes charge (they're a bit fur coat, no knickers, but the care is decent enough).

Once someone has privately funded for 3 years they will allow them to stay at a much reduced local authority rate until their death. They may be moved to a less nice bedroom, but the are remains the same, for the rest of their life.

Thanks, Woe. I’ll ask for it in writing this week, then we’ve got it down (I know it’s not in our existing paperwork), and I can stop worrying every so often and cross any bridges when we do come to them.

We’ve only had positive noises so far but every so often you just worry about the worst case scenario and one of our worst fears is our relative having to move, because it would quite likely be so digressing for them and they wouldn’t be able to tell anyone (the home have always known the approx estate, we’ve not tried to play anyone. It’s been difficult all round).

*distressing

My mum was self funding. We asked what would happen when her money ran out, before we signed anything and was assured she would stay on in the home. She did stay there until she passed away. When her savings reached £16,000 the council paid.

I’m sure they have said this but yes, I’m going to ask for it separately in writing.

As far as my aunt was concerned we were told that, as she had been self funding for a number of years (3-4) that, if the 'best interest meeting' determined it was in her best interests to stay there they wouldn't move her even though the council would only pay their normal rate. I think this is because they accept council funded people when they fall below a certain occupancy and if they refused this they wouldn't get any council referred people no matter how empty they became

Is there enough capital to buy an annuity?

Sadly not. We did get quotes with a broker at the outset but whereas with the estate then it would have been possible with a lot of other illnesses, the life expectancy isn’t as defined here so it wasn’t possible. Even the broker was shocked at what came back. It’s all a bit grim.

I work in the accounts/admin team for a large national care home company so I see this situation every day.
First of all, you should apply for funded nursing care now, because although it’s only £145 ish a week, every little helps.
You could also look into attendance allowance.
These are both financial ways to try and make even a small reduction in what you find every week.
When you are getting towards the end of the private pot of money, I would say around 6-8 months from being near the £23k, speak to the home manager or the finance team within the home and see what their position is.
There is LA funded but there is also CHC funding so depending on the residents condition they may qualify for that instead.
I’ve had to go through this on a personal basis with my Nan too, she was in a home for 7 years with severe dementure and at £1700 a week you can imagine where all her money went .

If you need any advice please feel free to Pm me.

Sorry what I should have added is, our policy is to have a certain amount of rooms that we can take on an LA/CHC funded basis.
It is also looked at what our occupancy is ie if we are low on private funded residents, we will take more LA/CHC residents because at the be of the day it’s a business and it’s better to have rooms filled at a lower financial rate than it is to be empty.
On this basis I would suggest that the best time of year to approach the home about funding is around Easter because we find that summer months is Potential residents families wanting to go on holiday and suddenly thinking ‘oh we should get them into a home now/respite’ or around Christmas/new year when people have seen their relatives and thought oh it’s about time they took the next step.

I hope this makes sense, sorry it’s just cos I deal with this every day I ramble on.

That’s so helpful! Thanks very much. Not a ramble at all. I should have mentioned that we do get that funded nursing care already, too. From what we’ve been told, CHC will be on the cards at some point but nobody can predict when. That’s a really helpful point about Easter. I’ll try to get it to coincide.

Please, from a personal point of view, remember that is someone has financial POA then they are able to ‘gift’ people a certain amount of money per tax year.
I know that means funds will deplete quicker, however, if your family member had intended to make provisions for inheritance then there’s no reason why this can’t be done via a gift yearly rather than wait and see if the money runs out. Hope that makes sense?
As in, it’s not dodgy or uncommon to use this money to gift to family who may not get any inheritance if the money runs out.

I know of someone in a home that I work for that had this situation. The location was perfect for her family and staying in touch with neighbours etc. As people have mentioned about the best interest meeting with the council the family had support from an age concern advocate and put a bit of work in with the home to show on paper why she should not be moved to a cheaper home in the next town over for instance.
It was proven that her current home was her home and it would have caused her a lot of distress and potentially physically harmed her to put her through a move.
The LA paid much more than their standard fee in this case. However i have also known cases where the person was moved.
If your social work team is anything like ours in that they a super stretched all i can advise it get your info together from as many professionals as you can and start the process at least 6 months from funding shortage.

Whatever you do don’t rely on getting CHC - it is almost impossible. We are fighting for it now but the health board are wriggling as hard as they can and moving the goalposts pretty much every week.

Definitely not. It does seem like gold dust. I totally understand why with the state the NHS is in but it must still be so frustrating.

ilove that’s a helpful pointer about an Age Concern rep, too. The charity representing the illness concerned have previously been quite helpful so hopefully we’d be able to seek out their assistance again to bolster any case needed.

Bloody hell, my mother has just been awarded CHC, backdated for 4 months.... We are gobsmacked but thrilled for her, they want to review and I guess we could always lose it but at least they have admitted finally that she meets the criteria. We had consulted a solicitor who advised us to take it forward as we had a good case but the authority made the award before they knew that so it shows that persistence pays off. Don’t give up folks, and don’t be deterred by the initial refusal - if your relative is ill enough they should be given this funding.

That’s great news, frosty. Fingers crossed everything stays smooth with the CHC now