Is Slimming World a MLM?

[Ihatesundays]

Just out of interest.
Someone I used to work with has given up a very well paid job to do Slimming World full time, the mention of Team Leader pricked my ears up!

Can you really make a good living from it...?

I know where she has set up there is already groups - she’s doing 2 days.
Can’t be comparable to a corporate management role, interesting to see what she is doing in one year.

I won’t do it. I did WW and did well on it but didn’t find it sustainable.
I now intermittently fast. I also don’t eat low fat/sweetners so I think SW would be out for me!

From the SW website....

Pasta and Potatoes Low in Calories?! It states clearly that you can eat as much as you like, as I said flawed....

Fill up on Free Food

Free Food is your new best friend and the hero of every great Food Optimising plate. Free Food includes hundreds of everyday foods you can eat without counting, without weighing or measuring and without a shred of guilt. They will fill you up, slim you down and help you build those important new healthy eating habits that will last a lifetime.

Free Foods include lean meat, eggs, fish, pasta, potatoes, fruit and vegetables. They’re filling and low in calories for their weight — so you can eat as much Free Food as you like

There’s actually no financial benefit to the target membership if they leave and put weight back on and then return over walking in as a brand new member.

Of course there isn’t! But SW isn’t run for the financial benefit of its customers. It’s run to make money, and it’s extremely beneficial to SW when people do that. They develop brand loyalty, and remember the thrill of free meetings, so come back again once the weight returns.

And yes, unlimited pasta is bizarre.

“Can’t be comparable to a corporate management role”

Tbh I’m not sure what a corporate management role would make, lol, but I’d doubt it.

It’ll depend on other things though whether it’s worth it for her, I know someone who technically gave up a well paying job to do it, but actually she took very early retirement so doesn’t need to make the same amount as that paid.

“ I also don’t eat low fat/sweetners so I think SW would be out for me!”

Depends what you mean by that really. People fairly easily follow it while also doing clean eating, low carbing, various other restrictions, but it’d be hard to do while also being high fat, if that makes sense?

As in it is low fat, but whether you do that by switching to low fat replacements, sticking with full fat but restricting them or only eating things that are naturally low fat anyway is personal choice.

Similar with products that use sweetener.

I think SW say you should eat until you are ‘comfortably full’ - if you do this with pasta rather then literally eating an unlimited amount, it is fine. I did SW and it does work, and I ate huge portions. It just massively restricts things like chocolate, crisps etc. I’ve also done WW, I prefer the SW plan and think generally it encourages healthier eating than WW, but I can’t bear the SW meetings or, as someone else mentioned, the huge queues. I tried arriving just before weigh in closed, and still queued. If you arrive even later you run the risk weigh in will have closed and you’ll have to sit through the tedious meeting before they weigh you. This is literally what’s put me going back recently.

“They’re filling and low in calories for their weight”

For their weight, they are.

The information you can access on the website is not the full information given to members when they join, they’re given a lot more than that.

“But SW isn’t run for the financial benefit of its customers.”

Of course not, what I mean is that the financial benefit of the free target membership only kicks in if they keep coming to group for free.

It’s not designed to entice them back, it doesn’t do anything for them to be a target member coming back with a gain. It’s to entice them not to leave and gain weight in the first place.

Of course people go woohoo, I’ve lost weight, problem solved I’m going back to how I ate before - lots of people do with anything.

But as consultants we’re supposed to be keeping them at least until they are maintaining well, that’s the aim anyway and that’s what we’re encouraged to do.

Sorry @swname - That makes no sense?

They are low in calories for their weight? So you weigh your meals?

I am confused?

Is unlimited pasta in theory what SW states is part of the plan?

“They are low in calories for their weight?”

100g of lettuce, pasta, chocolate, same weight - all different calorie content.

Part of why you can eat some foods without having to measure it but it’ll still create a calorie deficit is the calorie content by weight of food.

“Is unlimited pasta in theory what SW states is part of the plan?”

Actually no, not in the way you’re interpreting it.

Dried pasta is a free food.

Free foods can be eaten without weighing or measuring, so you’re guided by your appetite.

But you’re also supposed to eat only when you’re actually hungry and stop when you’re comfortably full (and learn when those points are)

You’re also supposed to make sure you’re filling up on lean protein over free carbs and you’re supposed to replace at least 1/3 of what your portion would be with the very low calorie density vegetables.

I dont think they can be dong that well ATM as only last week saw a whole team of them doing litter pick up in town!.All advertising on their sweatshirts .

It’s not designed to entice them back, it doesn’t do anything for them to be a target member coming back with a gain. It’s to entice them not to leave and gain weight in the first place.

But that business model wouldn’t work: that makes SW no money. If you took every person who was overweight, charged them a weekly fee until they hit target, and then they were free members for ever, maintaining, then SW would go bust. So I think it sounds like a good line but isn’t actually the aim of any of these companies, however sincerely individual leaders want to support the people who lose.

It also doesn’t chime with the customers you have. There are those (some have posted on this thread) who are a bit overweight through circumstance who need a check on their eating, lose a stone quick quickly, and are ‘free members’ within a few weeks. They won’t actually in general keep coming because their need to attend was transitory. They might come back if they need to repeat the process down the line.

Or members who are very overweight and take a long time to get to target weight. The relative few in that category who attain free membership probably could do with a weekly check in, but they are also unfortunately the least likely to keep the weight off, because science says so. The minority who lose and maintain their loss are so small that SW can take the hit on their free membership.

But you’re also supposed to eat only when you’re actually hungry and stop when you’re comfortably full (and learn when those points are)

How does SW help them do that? That’s a huge ask. I never saw my own SW leader address that issue at all - she just used to tell people to eat less.

You will always have two camps on any SW thread. Those who are evangelical about it and those that say it's a 'cult'.

It's like anything else - a bit of common sense goes a long way.

“If you took every person who was overweight, charged them a weekly fee until they hit target, and then they were free members for ever, maintaining, then SW would go bust“

See I can see how that seems to make sense, but it doesn’t actually take into account how many adults are overweight.

There sadly isn’t a shortage of people, even if absolutely everybody that joined reached their target and stayed there it’s stilk a sustainable business for a very long time.

“How does SW help them do that? That’s a huge ask.”

It is, getting people who aren’t used to paying attention to their body in that way to do that isn’t easy or always successful.

There are bits in the pack about how people do that and in online articles, it should be discussed in group when it comes up as well.

There’s no magic slimming world specific answer though, it’s all the usual things of eating more mindfully, changing the routines that mean you overeat by habit, doing all the standard “diet” things of trying a drink first, looking at your portion sizes, eating slower so you register you’re full...

See I can see how that seems to make sense, but it doesn’t actually take into account how many adults are overweight.

But it’s still a business model which works less well if people are successful. The SW ‘product’ is a thinner person; most manufacturers wouldn’t flourish if their product was a once-in-a-lifetime purchase, however big their consumer base!

And most diets ultimately fail, whether it’s someone who tries 5:2 for a week, or someone who loses ten stone over two years and then puts it all back on again. So the ‘standard diet tricks’ aren’t working. Our population is getting fatter and fatter. Until we stop telling people to drink a glass of water before their dinner, and work out why they are eating the wrong things in the wrong quantities - whether it’s psychological or economic - then diets will continue to fail. SW can’t do those things of course, and it help some people lose weight permanently, but it’s ultimately making a huge amount of money for a few people while we continue to get bigger.

@Swname - Thanks for clarifying.

I think that the issue here is nearly everyone over eats, portion control and asking people to stop when comfortably full would exceed what most people should eat considerably.

This is not a SW issue, it is a society issue. If people saw their calorific needs for the day versus what they eat, i think most would be shocked.

I think that myfitness pal is a great way for people to learn about how much they should be eating. One month of inputting all that passed my lips made me think about portion control massively.

I don't input my food now, and found that after a month of calorie counting you get used to what you need.

“But it’s still a business model which works less well if people are successful”

Yes, ultimately, but that’s not I’m relying on to make money, and it’s not how we’re told to operate either.

The business we’re told to run is get members to target, keep them there and they’ll recruit your new members.

Precisely because there are much wider societal issues and realistically that’s not something any eating plan is going to combat.

“I think that myfitness pal is a great way for people to learn about how much they should be eating.”

For some people absolutely, and if that works for them, great.

I have members who know full well how to lose weight, they just need a bit of accountability, I have members with massively disordered eating which doesn’t fit well with counting calories, I also have members who genuinely have no clue what’s healthy so counting calories means they’re starving and it’s unsustainable for them because they don’t know what to change... I also have members who aren’t capable of counting calories and it’s much easier for their support workers to keep track with slimming world than calories because of things like shift changes.

That’s not even the tip of the iceberg as to why just counting calories doesn’t work for lots of people.

But to lose weight you need a calorie deficit, so you HAVE to count calories.

Can you not see this? By ignoring Caloric content of food, you are unable to lose weight?

The meals I've seen from Slimming World often look and sound lovely. About a year ago,I had a Morrisons shopping delivery,and the vegetable curry that I'd ordered was out of stock,and had been substituted with a Slimming World one. Can't remember exactly what it was,aubergine and something,but it was VILE. It's not often that I cannot finish a meal because it is horrible,but I had to give up on this.

But to lose weight you need a calorie deficit, so you HAVE to count calories.

Can you not see this? By ignoring Caloric content of food, you are unable to lose weight?

Well you can, of course, lose weight without counting calories.

I lost 3 stone and have kept it off, without counting calories. I did it by eating healthier and cutting down (not cutting out) on the foods that I recognised made me gain weight. I exercised more and replaced sugary snacks with other alternatives. Clearly, my calory intake was less or I wouldn't have lost weight (obviously), but I didn't count a single calory.

I know that if I did, I would feel on a 'diet' and I knew that wouldn't work for me, I knew that I needed to change my relationship with food and that meant not counting calories. Obviously this would not work for everyone, but I think we should acknowledge that different methods will work for different people. We all know how to lose weight really.

No apps, no groups.

“But to lose weight you need a calorie deficit, so you HAVE to count calories”

The calories are the same when you don’t pay attention as when you do.

You don’t have to count them if what you’re eating creates a calorie deficit, it’s very very hard to do it exactly as you’re supposed to and not create a calorie deficit.

“By ignoring Caloric content of food, you are unable to lose weight?”

It’s not being ignored, just worked in a different way than straight counting. And people do lose weight, lots of them.

“About a year ago,I had a Morrisons shopping delivery,and the vegetable curry that I'd ordered was out of stock,and had been substituted with a Slimming World one.“

Morrison’s don’t sell slimming world meals.

That is great work SpiderCharlotte, congratulations.

I did not necessarily mean literally counting calories, per se.

I meant that one has to understand that calories in has to be less than calories out to lose weight. You did it by 'feel' and increased your exercise. I am not advocating counting all calories as a standard way to lose weight, I am saying that saying a food is 'free' sends the wrong messages to people, whom by the nature of them being in a slimming group, need help in losing weight.

“I meant that one has to understand that calories in has to be less than calories out to lose weight.”

You seem to think calories aren’t mentioned though?

They are, often, in the information given out, in groups, they’re mentioned all the time. They’re just not what’s counted.

I have just lost my first stone with SW (only 4 more to go...)

I think its for people like me who have failed to loose the weight on their own and need some guidance. Knowing I am going to be weighed on a Saturday morning does help me to leave the treat aisle in Tesco empty handed.

For me it takes things right back to basics, lots of fruit, veg, chicken etc and only a small treat - I can now eat one bar of chocolate instead of the whole multipack!!!

Yes it costs me £5 each week but personally i am happy to pay that to see the weight come off. Will it stay off - who knows.

I found SW useful for the weekly weigh-in. Left to my own devices I can cut down/ cut out/ cut back for a week or two but quickly fall off the wagon. The discipline of having to go and be weighed once a week on scales that I couldn't fool by shifting around worked for me. I'm the kind of person who finds it easier to be motivated with a deadline or target hanging over me.

I stayed to a few meetings, hated the happy-clappy element of them and thereafter left as soon as I'd got my shoes back on. I didn't want to buy SW merchandise or have to bring stuff along to contribute. I was appalled at the fakery, the Muller lights, the packets of dried pasta in dried sauce powder, the reliance on sweetener and quark and the demonisation of porridge.

My idea of hell is a SW meeting with someone going on at length about how you can make 'delicious' chocolate cakes from weetabix, crumbled high-fibre crispbread, a sachet of low-fat-no-sugar drinking chocolate and a tablespoonful of quark. It was surreal.