Is it me or is it just my toddler?

[tosleepornottosleep]

My DD is 20 months and usually feeds to sleep. She will also sleep in car and buggy.

As a newborn she would only sleep in arms and eventually in cot/basket, but only for 40 minutes at a time. On our first night and days on the maternity ward I remember thinking she was very "active" compared to all the other babies in the ward. We were checked for reflux etc and tried most remedies for most things.

When she was little I read every book on baby sleep going and eventually saw a sleep consultant when I was concerned that she was overtired and not getting close to the recommended sleep in 24 hours. We tried (and I mean properly tried ie one thing consistently over a period of weeks and then combinations etc) every bit of advice on here and I could probably do a degree in baby sleep except I was obviously not very successful putting it into practice!

We did gradually get to 2-3 hours sleep at a time which is where she has consistently stayed and now I feel her sleep is quite healthy. She has one nap at lunchtime and around 11 hours at night, albeit with wake ups around 10, 1 and 4. On these wake ups she usually has a quick breastfeed for a couple of minutes and then rolls over and goes straight back to sleep. She barely wakes, and it's quite seamless.

To get her to sleep at night I usually sit with her and sometimes lie with her and she will lie still for up to ten minutes at a time, clearly trying to sleep, but eventually gets frustrated and upset. Quite often then she'll ask for milk and eventually that usually works. She just seems to really struggle to switch off and I don't know if I'm doing her a favour by helping her with the milk, or if it's a hindrance long term. My instinct is that if it works, it's natural and all good, but my self doubt is that she finds it difficult to sleep without it as it's always available.

The only time this is a problem is when she is ill or otherwise in discomfort which being winter virus time is pretty much every other week. Then she rolls around and cries until she is nursed and because she's being woken so often by her discomfort, has to nurse constantly.

I don't mind any of this if it's in her best interests as I'm content that this too will pass - on the other hand I want to do the best for her long term.

She does have a medical condition and it concerns me there might be something wrong hormonally, but I've been told by her consultant it's unlikely. She has a routine, balanced diet, lots of sunlight in the day, omega 3 supplement and magnesium lotion.

Am I doing ok or do I need to do something different?

Ds2 was the same at that age. He's 2yr 9 months and has Just dropped his final bf, the early morning in bed one.

@Nottalotta that's good to hear, thanks

Did you have to do anything or did he drop them naturally? When did he start falling asleep with less help?

Ds1 was fed to sleep. At around 12 months I started offering cows milk in a spouted cup and he very quickly took to thatv(had been a bottle refuser). At 13 months started (VERY) gradual retreat. This helped massively. He's never before fallen to sleep on his own as such. I started with him and took a couple of months to edge out of the room. He's have his musix/light mobile on. By 15 months He'd go in the cot and fall to sleep, it took 15/20 minutes but he wa happy to be left and this helped him self settle overnight too.

Ds2 who I mentioned above, had a bottle at bedtime from very early on, so never fed to sleep but would bf at night wakings. Also had a dummy for bed. (I was anti dummy for ds1......) I gradually started say I g "there's no milk just yet, have your dummy". He didn't much want the dummy tbh but I think it helped. I didn't force the issue, would cuddle up to comfort, and bed drop back off. I think it's more about the comfort at that age so a cuddle in bed will help. That said, I'm single now, so it was no issue for ds2 to be in my bed, whereas with ds1 my ex H was still here, and I had ds2 on the way!

Ds2 has always fallen to sleep more easily that ds1 but I do stay with him for 5 minutes while he nods off. Ds1 is 4 now and gets in bed and goes to sleep quite happily. He still has a light show thing though as he loves it.

Honestly I would switch to cow's milk at bed time, and then water offered in the night by someone who doens't have lactating breasts (if you have a partner around to help). The breastfeeding in the night at this age isn't really necessary and your child is using it as a crutch. I'd also worry that she isn't learning to fall asleep on her own if you're sat there with her every night, what happens if you can't be there and someone else has to put her to bed?

That said, if you're happy with the way things are, she will eventually grow out of it. I think it's quite normal for little kids to be like this without a firm push to quit :) You are her mum and you know her best! You're doing amazing, just keep on doing what suits you and your daughter best. We are all different with different needs

We've tried the cows milk, even warm in a beaker and she goes absolutely ballistic. She has water in her cot but doesn't want it either

Also tried Dad settling her for hours - if he puts her in the cot she is absolutely hysterical, if he sits in the dark and cuddles/plays she will simply stay up for hours

I too am worried about these things but am not sure of the answer!

I've got three kids all breastfed, I've had this with all three and currently with 11 month old DS.

He wakes every 30-60 minutes. I've done two solid weeks of sleep consultant lead training and it improved in that he would go to sleep without feeding. And he would do a longer stretch when he first went down.

But after 14 nights he was still waking 6 times a night except I was physically having to get out of bed to shush him back to sleep.
I nearly died.

Now it's come unraveled he's back in my bed and feeds in the night and he now wakes every 30-60 minutes again.

I dont know what to do.

Honestly, when the kids are so little it's all about survival isn't it. You do what you need to do in order to get enough sleep to survive the next day. Don't feel bad if those things are not what the books say that you should do! These kids are not going to be waking every five minutes, breastfeeding and needing you to sit by the bed until they fall asleep at fifteen. It's all going to be okay. Just try what you want to try, the important thing is consistency.

@tosleepornottosleep in your position I would do one of 2 things. Carry on, it won't last forever. Or, try the gradual retreat method. So do whatever you normally do to get her to sleep, then gradually do less and less. If you read up the method says do it over 10 days. I took about 2 months. I started out giving lots of comfort in the cot, leaning in, singing, stroking etc. Gradually got to just sitting next to the cot and holding hand, then just sitting, then sitting a few inches away. Each time I made sure he was happy and if he wasn't I went back a step. Once I'd done all this, if he was ill I'd end up giving more comfort, then doing a mini version once he wa better. For me (I was pregnant again) it was worth the time input as actually it took less time than what we'd been doing before. I just went in with the expectation that id be sat upstairs for a whilel, and that it was a worthwhike investment id my time. I read my kindle.

@DontBiteTheBoobThatFeedsYou That sounds really, really tough, I hope you do get more sleep soon

Do you mind if I ask how you achieved the initial sleep without feeding? I think if I tried cc or gradual retreat she'd climb out of cot

Good sleepers are born not made! DS1 sounds very much like your DD and now at 2.5yo he no longer bfs but still wakes and needs cuddles to sleep. DS2 is 5 weeks old, comes off the breast when he's done and will lie quietly in his crib until he drops off. I was genuinely astounded when I saw him do this and thought he was ill or something (!). He also already does stretches of 4-5 hours at night. You know what I've done differently? Absolutely nothing. Of course, he may well change but DS1 never did this, ever. At this point with him I was already on my knees with sleep deprivation. In fact even now a 5 hour stretch is pretty good for him! Some kids just need more help sleeping imo, just as some adults are worse sleepers than others. I'd keep doing what you're doing.

You are doing exactly as you should

Sorry but that's BS.
It's suggested that babies or aren't fed to sleep aren't nourished and comforted and all
that other twee stuff written there.

Fact is, fed to sleep can and does cause huge issues.

OP to answer your question, I didn't used CC I just don't want him to endure that. I simply patted him to sleep.
But this is something I absolutely knew would work for him because he relied on patting as comfort during sleep when his reflux was bad. Patting to sleep would never have worked for DC1 it depends on the baby.

I also shush and use white noise and prepare for it to take an hour. The next night it will take less. The next night less still etc

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't make it BS first time the word twee has ever been used in reference to something I've said lol! It's not an attack on people who choose not to do it, it's a reassurance for people who do and don't feel ready to stop!

I don't think pat to sleep would work either, she gets hysterical if she can't sleep after her ten mins lying there trying unless I then feed to sleep, even if I cuddle her or kiss her or stroke or give her space

I feel for her as she lies quietly and seems to try and then just gets really upset

How much is it bothering you OP? Or are you just worried for the future?

Also, you might be surprised. Ds1 had never fallen asleep independently. I did gradual retreat. I had a really firm routine in place before that, the same thing every night. Bath, pjs, story, milk, mobile while falling to sleep. So the only thing I changed was putting him in the cot awake. It took over an hour for him to go to sleep, but he did, eventually. No crying. Was down to 20 minutes within the week. That's when I started doing the withdrawal. I put it off for ages, as I was convinced it would work.

And actually, the difficult sleeper has turned out to be easier than ds2 who would fall asleep on his own from birth.

DD was the same, wouldn't sleep in a cot, buggy, etc only on my arms and while bf. She bfed endlessly, especially during the night, she could bf every 2 hours for 45 minutes at a time.

She got better at 2yo but I did use Dr J Gordon's method of extending the period between bf feeds (I adjusted the time frame as well and it took us a lot longer than he suggests). At 2yo she finally slept for 5 hours uninterrupted.

Now she's 8yo I have forgotten all about it. She puts herself to sleep and sleeps for 11 hours, so it does get better!

At nearly two she doesn’t need anything to replace breastfeeding so don’t worry if she won’t have cows milk. None of mine have ever voluntarily drink cows milk, I was the same.

The sleep stuff I can only offer my commiserations I’m afraid!

It's not really bothering me to be honest except in wondering if I'm doing the wrong for her in the long term, although I appreciate she won't feed to sleep for ever.

It's true about not needing a substitute physically - I suppose we tried it as a mental substitute more than physical need. Also, I wake up thirsty in the night so can understand that!

I had high hopes of gradual retreat but the problem is that although she does lie still for a while, after ten minutes she suddenly becomes hysterical and sobs if I don't feed her. It's like she tries but can't

The thing is, she needs to learn to fall asleep by herself.
But if it doesn't bother you, don't worry! I was ok with this with my second baby.

I'm not ok with this this time round. I'm old and it's killing me.

If it's not bothering you and it works, I'd keep doing it for now. I fed my DS to sleep for a long time, and stopped it very easily when the time was right and he was ready to just have a story and a cuddle.