Shakespeare thread

[Ghoulestofmums]

Someone said this would be a good idea so here goes. I could post for hours but one thought to start it off -

I have a theory about why Lear loved Cordelia more than Goneril and Regan. (Which clearly he did, imo, having simply had a hissy fit in the opening distribution of inheritance scene). I believe his first marriage was dynastic as so many royal marriages had been by Shakespeare’s day. So he didnt love G and R’s Mum. In my theory she died and he was then free to marry someone he loved ie C’s Mum. So it was understandable he loved the product of his love match more. It also might explain why G and R are such bitches - they take after their mother.

Not sure how much the text supports this, but I like it!

Off out now so wont be able to reply for some time.

Oh, and he was probably p*ed off that the first two were daughters not sons, echoing H8, of recent memory for Shakespears

Interesting theory! Lear isn't a play I know so well, but I will definitely do some reading on it now you've brought this up.

Hamlet is more my bag, only because I studied it at A-level.

I managed to get an English Lit degree without studying Shakespeare, which has always been a bit of a regret (I chose a really specific course in 2nd/3rd year that was mostly Old & Middle English).

I have two pet theories:

1. Obviously, Shakespeare knew which side his bread was buttered on when writing Richard III. But I can't help but suspect he was also taking the piss and going OTT with Richard's 'villainy'.

2. Similar theory on Romeo and Juliet. I think he, tongue in cheek, thought the whole story a lot of melodramatic teenage nonsense over a crush. I always read 'Never was there a story of more woe...' with a HEAVY dollop of sarcasm. I mean, the story opens with Romeo mooning over another girl.

There are multiple Shakespeare plays that deal with all sorts of romantic nuances, which to me suggests that the puerile, overblown romance of Romeo and Juliet really is piss-taking. (I had Sonnet 130 at my wedding)

I feel that Romeo and Juliet is really a play about the utter uselessness and self-serving behaviour of the adults around the two leads - and about how communication is key to successful relationships.

Friar Lawrence gives dreadful advice, sees an opportunity to unite the families and take credit for it, and when his plan spectacularly fails, tries to cover his tracks.

Lord Capulet lets Romeo stay at the feast, thus annoying Tybalt further, but doesn’t take the opportunity to openly welcome Romeo and put an end to the feud. If he hadn’t been such a posturing twit maybe Juliet could have told him about her and Romeo.

Nurse can’t say no to Juliet, but doesn’t have the courage of her convictions when the shit hits the fan and instead tries to get her to marry Paris. Hopeless.

I do love Capulet’s rant when Juliet refuses to marry Paris. Clearly written by a man who knew the effect of a stubborn teenager on an adult

I agree there's a load of sarcasm in R&J. The Prologue's 'Two houses, both alike in dignity' always makes me think of warring Vicky-Pollard-like families on reality TV shows. The Capulets are a rough crowd. J's father is vicious to her in Act 3 Sc 5. 'Hang, beg, starve, die in the streets' if she doesn't do what he says. And he threatens to hit her too.

WRT Lear - I think he has narcissistic personality disorder. He's a perfect portrayal of it. And Shakespeare often creates such tyrants - Leontes in Winter's Tale is similar. So's Capulet. Shakespeare writes a credible line in bullying fathers who think they are adorable. Lear can't hear anyone say anything he doesn't agree with. He has no sensitivity that turning up with a massive boozy entourage of blokes will upset Goneril and Regan. And I think there's dark violent history there too. Something triggered their violence against him. They'd been trained to simper and pander whilst hating his manipulative tyranny since they were very young.

@pinkarsedfly I totally agree with you - the real tragedy is in the miscommunication and lack of truthfulness of the adults and the interfering plans that others come up with. The plan of 'pretend to be dead' and then escape really annoys me intensely, especially when the blinking letter explaining the plan is late getting there. Infuriating! All caused by the adults really.