Is the 5x5 workout any good?

[losenotloose]

Someone recommended it to me at the gym and I've just done my first session. It was so easy! I know it progresses pretty quickly which also worries me as won't it then become too difficult too quickly? If you follow this program would you recommend it?

Bump

'5 x 5', 'Starting Strength', 'Strong Lifts' (and all the other variations of essentially the same progressive resistance, full body training) is fantastic*.

*Depending on your goals and depending on your technique.

If you develop poor technique or do not follow the program correctly, including stretching, full, proper and correct warm up and rest days, you can injure yourself once the weight begins to increase - this is especially true of the dead lift and squat.

You will be astonished at just how strong you can get. I (at my best, a few years ago) managed a 200kg deadlift for 1 rep without straps. That was within 12 months of starting when on my first day, I didn't have the flexibility to even bend down to reach the bar.

I would strongly urge you to get a high quality, (wide as possible) weight lifting belt, again, especially for the squt and dead lift, as these allow you to push against them to lock up your core when the weight increases.

This might sound extreme at the beginning, however within a couple of months, you'll be adding significant weight to the bar and you need to protect yourself. This is especially true if you are not experienced or do not have a properly trained coach (not a gym employee with a 2 week certificate) to help develop technique.

Your metabolism will sky rocket and you'll need to eat more to keep up. Don't bother with protein shakes, you can get all you need from a well balanced diet that includes where possible, lean or white meats, fish, and plenty of fresh fruit and veg. Don't be tempted to cut back on carbs - you'll need them for energy and strength.

Don't underestimate how taxing it can be on your central nervous system or again, the importance of rest and recovery, as this is the time you will grow stronger and repair the micro trauma inflicted on your muscles, joints, tendons etc.

Stretch, warm up, lift with proper technique, eat, rest, repeat.

Oh, and once you realise you are squatting, dead lifting and bench pressing more than your own body weight with ease, it can be come addictive and is hugely good for the mind and soul.

And no, you will not develop a body builders physique under this program. Yes, you will gain muscle, overall density and lose body fat, but ultimately will end up aesthetic, athletic and lean.

I can highly recommend a book by ex-Olympic coach Mark Riptoe, called 'Starting Strength'. This was my bible for a long while as served me well.

Just in case I forgot to mention - stretch, warm up, good technique is essential to success. Trying to rush, cheat or cut corners WILL result in injury.

Best of luck.

Thank you, Groundfloor, this all sounds good! I started off last October with body pump but after a while decided I wanted to lift heavier weights. It's taken me a while to work up the nerve to use the gym and I've been following another routine for the last 5 weeks which was ok but I wasn't happy with the results. Hopefully this will do the trick!

groundfloor that's really inspiring, thank you.

OP, it's best to start easyish then increase the difficulty than to injure yourself early on. There's a lot of technique to perfect too.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I started really light today (20kg squat/bench press/barbell row) because the weight increases pretty fast and what I read online recommends starting light.

Yes, start off with the empty bar and do not progress until you have mastered the movement, positions and technique.

Correct foot position and bar grip for the squat and dead lift is essential.

Do not feel embarrassed using an empty 20kg bar. Use this as investment time in mastering the movement until it becomes second nature.

it is sooooooo tempting to ramp up the weight faster than the program recommends. However the program is designed to give you the light weight practice as an investment in sound foundations.

If you take short cuts at this very important phase, it will come back to bite you in the ass later down the line when you lack the muscle memory to perform correct technique because you've just tipped the weight into the 'whoa there' phase.

I remember looking nervously around me, incredibly self-conscious, limbering up to the bar, when others around me were warming up on weights that I wouldn't lift for 6 months.

I also remember doing my home work and mastering technique to the point where it wasn't long before I could silently critique the 'big boys' in the gym and they're spinal 'Russian roulette' approach. But hey, they're macho, right?

I actually bought from e-Bay some incremental weights once the weight got heavy, as for me, adding even the 1.25kg per side increase was tough, so I bought a set of 0.25 and 0.5kg little plates that I could add each time and take home from the gym with me in my bag. It can feel pathetic putting what look like washers on the bar, but you can definitely feel them and it helped remove the intimidation from the next jump up in weight.

This thread has got me thinking back to when i started and the things I had forgotten about....

Very quickly, the dead lift will reach a weight where the bar is going up and down vertically, not matter what part of your body is in the way - normally (and correctly) your shins. Even though I was wearing thick jogging bottoms, I'd regularly draw blood up and down the front of my shins and you really don't feel it. I overcame this by putting a couple of strips of parcel tape up my shins so the clothing could slide easily - made a big difference.

Another one is not to fall into the trap of adding a pad under the bar when squatting. Yes, it's uncomfortable and feels really weird and can be painful at first, but you very soon get used to it and once the bar gets heavy, the pads don't make any difference and prevent you locating the bar correctly on the muscular shelf you will develop across the back of your shoulder. it is much safer not to use a pad and whatever you do, not one of those pipe insulation wraps - please no!!!

Another thing to watch out for, once you start lifting heavy on the dead lift, your body will send lots and lots of blood to the places that need it, which will divert it from other places, typically your brain. It is perfectly common to feel very light headed and dizzy after a good set of five heavy deadlifts. I used to put the bar down and then just semi collapse and crumple round the bar, stare at the floor and just steady myself until my vision returned to normal and I reached an equilibrium again. It WILL happen, so expect it and be prepared to just sit on the floor for a minute whilst you recover between sets. I've seen people completely pass out after a higher rep set of DLs so stay on the floor. There are actually plenty of youtube clips of people doing just that.

Try to avoid using straps for the dead lift - instead adopt the reverse grip technique - one hand pronate, the other supinated - this way the bar cannot roll out of either hand. Just make sure you switch the grips round between sets to even any imbalance in your wrists and elbows by sticking to the same grip each time.

Liquid chalk is your friend - get some and use it. eBay has plenty.

It is easy to hurt your lower back with a shoulder press, especially if you arch your back too much - again, a good nubuck leather lifting belt is a very worth while investment. Do it up tight, and then one notch tighter, but not so tight you can't breath. It should dig in firmly when you bend forward.

I'll say it again, get a good book on the correct technique, it will pay dividends.

The feeling you get when you go to the garden centre next spring and that big bag of compost just floats off the pallet into your arms like it's a pillow is awesome.

Thanks, Groundfloor. Do you still train? The book you mentioned is so expensive! Do you have any other book recommendations?

I do still train yes, but not in the same way and concentrate on callisthenics which better suit my current physical pursuits.

However, I couldn't do any of my current body weight exercises had I not built a core strength and power from my days power lifting.

The term power lifting sounds very 'worlds strongest man', but in fact it is simply a term that best describes the core compound movements of the sport - Squat, Dead lift and Bench Press. I've seen elderly ladies 'power lift' - it's a sport, not a 'weight'.

Yes, you've just reminded me how expensive that book is!

So, just for you....

Starting Strength Channel - www.youtube.com/user/AasgaardCo/videos

Dead Lift -

Squat -

Bench Press -

Shoulder Press -

Barbell Row -

These will give you the correct technique.

There are thousands of videos on the internet, many of which may contradict what Mark teaches, however I can assure you, that when it comes to understanding the body, geometry and the science of lifting, Mark is bang on the money and massively respected in the lifting community.

I'll off a couple of pieces advice from my own experience of not (initially) having a coach...

If your program includes the power clean (lifting the bar from the floor like a deadlift and raising it to either the top of your chest or even further to the full pressed (overhead position), I would avoid this exercise and just do the standing shoulder press as per the video I linked to. The reasons are this:

It is a movement that is heavily dependant on technique and is primarily designed to teach and master explosive power, which if your goal is to lift bar bending weights and have your ears blend into your shoulders, then great. From a muscular perspective, 95% of it is covered within the squat and dead lift. It is also a movement that it is very difficult to master correctly, rendering it inefficient and dangerous. I'd only recommend this with a proper coach and very specific goals.

Also, the bar bell bent over row.... this one might be controversial.
it is a great staple movement, however can place a great strain on your lower back and ultimately is covered by much of the dead lift exercise.

In my opinion and experience, if you want to include an additional all over back and upper body movement to supplement the dead lift, a far more 'all encompassing' movement that will give great overall upper body strength and conditioning to make your other movements much easier to execute and control is the close grip chin up....

As you will be limited to your own body weight, these can be done as a final 'reps to failure' exercise at the end of each session. If you can't do many, don't worry, build up until you can do 1, then 2, then 3 etc....

As long as you concentrate on the 3 main ones, Squat, Dead Lift and Bench Press, you're golden, but do include the shoulder press also.

Happy to answer as many questions as you want, here or by pm.

Soon you be asking people "Do you even lift?"

This is all very helpful! One last question (for now!) As I progress, are any other exercises needed? I suppose after seeing routines with far more variety, it's hard to believe that five different exercises will be enough, though I'll be pleased to be proved otherwise.

Can I hijack to ask your advice as well groundfloor ...I've been doing some version of 5x5 for about 6 months and seem to have plateaued on the weight I can lift (particularly in squats) why would this be? Did you experience it and how do you lift heavier?...my weights are embarrassingly low!

@losenotloose That depends on your goals.

The exercises are what are referred to as compound exercises in that they use many muscles to perform the full range of motion. Some primary, some secondary and some in a stabilising capacity.

They are the absolute best 'bang for your buck' exercises you can get.

The burn the most calories, use the most muscles, stimulate the most growth, promote the most bone density, release the most endorphins, active your core the most and make you feel like King Kong.... the most.

You can actually build a fabulous physique with just the dead lift, squat and bench press.

Earlier I mentioned goals. This is where other exercises may, or may not come into the equation.

If we take it to the extreme and look at body building, the purpose of this is to develop the most perfectly balanced, proportionate and ultimately muscular body you can, given your genetic potential (we'll leave steroids out of this discussion).

As people all have different muscular genetics, it might be that after two years of doing 5 x 5, you notice that you've got massive quads, but your hamstrings are lacking. or it might be that your front and medial deltoids (shoulder muscles) are well developed, but your rear deltoids (rear shoulder muscles) are lacking.

In circumstances like this, you can do what are referred to as isolation exercises to target specific muscles.

In reality, if you are doing 5 x 5 (or similar) and doing them in the correct proportion, 95% of people will develop well balanced, strong and useful bodies that will help them enjoy life in so many ways. It is actually quite unusual to do this and then need to add in additional isolation exercises.

If body building is your goal, then yes, maybe some exercises to specifically target your calfs might be beneficial, or maybe a your lower trapezoids could do with some extra 'pop', but let's get real - this does not apply to the vast majority of us.

This is where you see peoples ego taking over in the gym. See those young men, standing in the mirror doing endless bicep curls? What are they actually training other than their bicpes? Nothing. Just two very small muscles in their upper arm.

What is interesting is that you'll develop equally strong and big biceps by doing dead lifts and barbell rows or chin ups. The difference is though that whilst you're doing those, you'll also be burning more calories, working your core and all those other muscles at the same time, releasing extra testosterone, boosting your libido, etc, etc.

The short answer is, no, not really. For most people.

@Springfern Stalling is great, well done. This is showing that you've made progress, increased your weight and are now finding it tough - excellent, the program is working.

Everybody reaches a plateau. Absolutely everybody. Otherwise you'd keep going and be able to lift 500kg on the deadlift whilst whistling.

Now, if we remember that everyone has different genetic potential and more importantly different anthropology, sheer mechanical advantage and geometry will dictate you will be better at some lifts than others.

I have a long back and long femurs, that means that for me to squat low, breaking parallel, my ass sticks out way far to the back, thanks to long femurs, which means that my long back has to be almost horizontal, a long way from in front of my hips with a big old weight over it - the order of levers means that I am at a disadvantage here compared to my friend who has relatively short legs and can keep his back far more vertical than I can, hence the weight is much closer to the fulcrum of his hips, hence he can squat more.

Conversely, I can dead lift far more than him as I have longer arms and don't need to bend down as far to reach the bar so can keep my back more vertical.

Squats are my weak point also, so bad that I can bench press as much as I can squat, yet I can dead lift double that weight!

To push past plateaus, there are a few basics to check and then some techniques you can use.

1. Are you eating enough? Do not under estimate the value having lots of good quality food can have on your lifts. Make sure you are getting a good amount of protein and complex cars on the day you lift and preferable the day before too, but really, you should be eating well all the time. Smaller meals, more often is helpful.

2. We all have strength at different times of the day. I was at my best at about 8-9pm, yet can barely brush my teeth in the morning. Are you lifting at your peak strength time?

3. Are you motivated? I achieved my 200kg 1 rep max dead lift on the day I almost stormed out from my job. I was incandescent over an issue and was ready to go full on nuclear. I'd have died rather than let that bar beat me. Couldn't do it the next week when I was calm and more chilled but wanted to prove it to my friend.

4. Arte you getting enough sleep? Tired = weak. Every time.

So what techniques can we use to break through? Here's what worked for me, and one of these I picked up from Eddie Hall (Dead lifted half a tonne!!)

First, chose a lift you need to break through. You won't keep lifting more and more forever on each exercise, so choose one to work on. For the next few weeks, keep the same weight on all the other exercises and just work on the one on question. Your body is used to progressive overload, by saving it all for one exercise, you can often save up and spend all in one go and break through.

Secondly, if this is an exercise you don't normally do first, make this the first in your routine when you're most fresh. Try this for each one.

Thirdly, and this one is the most scientific and what got me past both my bench and dead lift ceiling is to back off to about 70% of what you can normally lift, then rather than lifting the same weight for each set, ramp up each set.

Example, let's say your dead lift is currently plateaued at 100kg.

Your sets over the following weeks should look like this:

(Drop to 3 sets, not 5)

70kg, 75 kg, 80kg,
75kg, 80kg, 85kg
80kg, 85kg, 90kg
85kg, 90kg, 95kg

Now increase by 2.5kg

90kg, 92.5kg, 95kg
92.5kg, 95kg, 97.5kg
95kg, 97.5kg, 100kg - this is your previous max and will feel easier than before.

Now, fresh, first set (after warm up) put 102.5kg on the bar and lift it.

You will amaze yourself, and next week you'll be able to do 105kg.

it might be that you then plateau at 105kg for a few weeks and months, but you can repeat the process over and over.

This has worked for me and many I know. it takes patience, but the key is to drop down to a weight (70kg in this example) that was once hard, but you now find easy. Because it is easy, you will re-hone your technique, allow your body to recover and grow some, grow your confidence of improvement again which by the time you get back to your previous max, you'll be mentally and physically ready to destroy it.

I love lifting.

No grey area, no BS, no relying on other people, no ambiguity, no misunderstanding, no flaky people, no lies, not ifs, buts or maybes - it's just you and the bar and the only thing that stands in your way is you. You control your destiny. It's binary, black or white, you can either lift it or you can't. It's a very pure and cleansing thing that forces you to be honest with yourself and face up to your inner fears.

Now go and do the above, smash through that glass ceiling, show the world and everyone who ever doubted you that you can do it, and come back here and tell me how damn amazing it feels.

Anthropometry, not anthropology - blooming auto correct!

Wow groundfloor thankyou. So much good advice there. I will definitely take up those tips. Can I ask, does where you are in your menstrual cycle affect the weight you can lift? I've noticed it does for me. Also, I've been in recovery from anorexia for the last few years and have only had periods back about 6 months (I'm a healthy weight). I wondered if this had something to do with my weights stalling, as in my body will only go so far until it knows it's safe and again?

And losenotloose please come back and update on how you're getting on, I'd love to see more lifting threads on here!

Brilliant responses, Groundfloor! I'll be coming back to this thread for revision

And Spring I'll definitely be back to update, hopefully with good news!

@Groundfloor thank you again. I'm doing cardiac physio to recover from a chronic illness and then I'm hoping to start lifting

@Springfern

I'm afraid I can't answer your question regarding the menstrual cycle as I am of the male variety, but have know plenty of female lifters. It's not something I've heard about, but logic would suggest that there would be some variance.

As for your body weight, this will 100% absolutely impact your ability to lift and well done for beating such a horrible illness.

It won't be your body protecting itself so much as your 'car has a tiny engine' and will not be up to high speed motorway journeys.

You need to add mass by a combination of healthy, frequent eating and lifting. Given your current position, more so than ever, rest and recovery will be utterly essential to making progress.

Also, if you have been underweight, ensure your are getting enough fats in your diet, as these will contribute to healthy joints and the growth hormones required to build strength and muscle.

If you are not vegan and don't have any lactose intolerance, you could do a lot worse than drinking lots of whole milk, semi-skimmmed at least. A good 2-3 pints a day. It is a great source of sugars, fats and protein, which if combined with some other protein sources (to complete the amino acid chain) will promote muscular repair, recovery and growth.

It doesn't sound like you will become a victim of excess fat, so worry about that if that ever becomes a challenge in the future. Right now you need to concentrate on building a solid foundation work from - food, rest, sleep, train repeat.

I always used to say that to build a tall building you need an architect, a builder, a design/plan, building materials and time to build it. Without all of those factors, you're not building anything.

You = Architect and builder - if you don't do it, there is no workforce.
Training = Design / Plan - the harder and better you train, the grander the plan.
Food = Building Materials - the higher quality and quantity of food, the better and more copious building materials you will have to work with.
Rest = Time to build - if you don't rest and sleep, the builder can't work.

The hardest 90% is getting yourself to the gym and having the guts to stand in front of an olympic bar, knowing that even the empty, 20kg bar will feel heavy and awkward the first few times.

The next 5% is going back again for more.

The last 5% is sticking to it.

You're almost there and you've only just started!

Now go and build the very best version of you possible - you can do this!!

It's never too late and absolutely can be done!