Election

[Pringlesfortea]

I’ve tried really hard to follow what’s going on with leaving EU.
But I don’t understand why they have called an election at Christmas.
I thought ..that people wanted a second vote on leaving EU
Instead we get a general election...how does that help matters ?
Am I missing something?
I’ve a lot going on personally at mo ,so I’ve probably missed something simple ,apologies if so.

Anyone ?

The government doesn't have a majority to get Brexit through. The PM wants an election to get a majority and get it through.

You're missing a lot, Pringles (lol).
One sentence summary:
Parliament is sovereign but Parliament can't agree on anything except having an election.

But it was voted for ,we all voted ..and leave was agreed .
So...
Why do they have to agree among themselves,did they not vote when we did ?
I’ve clearly not understood this

Surely to goodness you can't be that naive Pringles? Or are you just being goady?

Huh? What exactly did we vote for? If you know, please do tell because it seems that Parliament didn't get that memo.

Sticking up for @Pringlesfortea, I am watching sky news now and I just don’t understand why they need to vote on an election on Dec 9th when they already have one agreed on 12th? I’m so confused

The whole thing is completely confusing and nobody should be berated for not understanding what the hell is going on and I can't explain it properly!

I heartily recommend the Brexit section, particularly the Westminsterenders thread. Though quite honestly this proves why it is so silly to hide it all there.

leave was agreed

Yes! A Norway style relationship with the EU was agreed. Absolutely. That's what everyone voted for and wanted. Out of EU but in the EEAA. Clear as day, that's what the majority wanted.

Oh wait, I think I got that wrong, silly me. A Switzerland style relationship with the EU was what people meant when they voted for Leave. Absolutely. That's it. What could be simpler?

Oh darnit, I may be muddled. What people REALLY wanted when they voted Leave was to leave EU membership but still be part of the Customs Union exactly like Turkey is. That is EXACTLY what Leavers campaigned for. I'm sure of it now.

So that's clear as mud what Parliament should do. Gee whiz you're right OP. It's all so simple.

we all voted

Did we? Lots of now 18 and 19 year olds didn't get to vote.
Did people realise the importance of the vote? It was the summer, students were in Ibiza etc etc

, staying in the EEA, yup, that's what folk voted for in 2016. Very clearly. Sorted.

Six weeks of electioneering alongside six weeks + of Christmas adverts. The general public are going to be sooooooo fed up

Why December? Cant they bloody well leave it until after Christmas? January maybe? Im so fed up of the whole sodding mess.

For one, NONE of the EU citizens currently living in the UK got to vote at all... that’s a fair chunk of the population left without a voice (can you tell I’m still fuming!?!)

I heartily recommend the Brexit section, particularly the Westminsterenders thread. Though quite honestly this proves why it is so silly to hide it all there.

It really isn't because all those who are apparently clued up on political nuance still have difficulty understanding why the leave vote happened and are still trying to paint it as a tory v labour (or now yellow tory) issue.

It's mainly full of economically illiterate who flood the boards during the next GE as being anti-neolib.

OP: I thought ..that people wanted a second vote on leaving EU

Not really no, remainers have split the neolib tories and labour.

Corbyn doesn't want to be handed the shit show that is brexit and have to come of the fence and deal with his majority of constituents that voted leave and still pretend to be for the working class.

Labour tried to place a huge turd on wanting an election for the last 2 years by trying to table a motion of wanting 16 yr olds and EU citizens to vote in a GE

It is far more nuanced than believing that people want a second referendum, and despite those who pretend they are being comical by posting graphs and 'witty' comments, the situation is government has become deadlocked. It was the only card that Boris can play to put Corbyn and Milne to get off the fence.

MN will unironically be flooded in the next few weeks with anti-neolib/ big business posts, this is the time to farm the salt.

No I’m not being Goady ..I’m confused
If they can do an election
Why not do another vote on leaving EU instead?
But actually tell us ..if you vote leave you are voting for xyzzy
If you vote remain you are voting for abc
I don’t think people knew exactly what they were voting for.
I think the government should of worked out a leave deal before giving us the vote .so we knew exactly what we were voting for.

The country voted to leave.

Parliament has been unable to make that happen so far.

There is no prospect of the current House reaching agreement on how to deliver Brexit, nor is it easy to see how much if anything else can be achieved.

So rather than limp on for years, this is a chance to press reset.

Last time round, both Conservative and Labour Party said they would honour the referendum results. Tories still will, Labour continues to flipflop appallingly (I think Corbyn is a Leaver, but is trying to avoid saying so), so I'm wondering what they will come up with in their manifesto.

Actually six weeks of electioneering alongside six weeks of adverts for things that many cant afford due to austerity UC etc might actually get more people voting than usual.

"Why not do another vote on leaving EU instead?"

Because why stop there? Why not best of 3, or 5 or whatever? When you put a single question to the country for determination, you can't just ignore the result. The campaigning should have been done effectively befire the people's vote, not 2+ years after in the hope of getting another vote until the 'right' answer is delivered.

My big 'wish it had been different' wish on all this is that the referendum wasn't at the time of Maastrict, so EEC could have continued unless the country was wholeheartedly behind closer EU integration - which it clearly isn't

I've just seen the Matt cartoon for tomorrow

"At least a December election will put a stop to all that Season of Goodwill' nonsense"

Spot on!!

The 12th December isn't Christmas??

On the face of it Leave was agreed by the referendum. In practice, the referendum posed a binary simple question which does not have a binary and simple answer.

Leave meant different things to different people and there is no one version of it to fit all, so nothing was actually agreed at all.

Then, Theresa May called that snap general election in 2017 in order to strengthen her arm (remember the "strong and stable" mantra?) and spectacularly lost her working majority, having to buddy up with the DUP to stay in power, if you can call it that.

Which leads us to the paralysed Parliament we have today, which cannot even decide what day of the week it is.

So, in order to break the impasse, a general election has become necessary. How have you missed all of that over the last three and a half years?

Personally, I would just cancel Article 50 and hope forlornly that leaving would never be mentioned again. I still hope that Boris gets a bloody nose and we don't actually leave, but I am a remained anyway.

I'm likely to vote LibDem.

No I’m not being Goady ..I’m confused

followed by

Why not do another vote on leaving EU instead?

You maybe need to incorporate a bit more of that critical thinking you are trying to insinuate.

Why not do another vote on leaving EU instead?

Critical thinking again when you state in your OP that you thought people wanted a second referendum, maybe try and read around the subject, plenty of reasons why a large number of the 'thick,uneducated' labour constituents voted leave and it isn't because of right wing media considering they would vote for a red rosette on a donkey.

Anyone asking these types of faux innocent questions 3 years down the line is nothing more than idiotic astro turfing and shows their own ignorance in the critical thinking department than those they want to target,

OP we have ended up with a GE instead of a second ref because in the end the LDs and SNP have decided to put their own short-term (especially in the case of the LDs) gain first and chose to back the election and Labour couldn't be the only party not backing it - it made their position untenable. There were a lot of signs that the numbers would have been there in parliament for a second ref eventually but now we are thrown into this uncertainty that may very well change very little.

Lurker just because many leave voters are/were also Labour voters doesn't mean their reasons for voting as they did can't have been misguided. That's not calling them stupid at all. It's a shame their MPs and the Labour party in general haven't tried to get the message to them that the reason their lives are disappointing/shit/difficult is NOT because of the EU. How are people going to feel if and when that realisation finally sinks in and it's, perhaps, too late?