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Original poster

part-timer treated less favourably - advice please

95 replies

Kbear · 29/10/2019 18:30

My boss has given the whole company the day off on Christmas Eve. Some of us are part time, some full time. My colleague is part time and doesn't work Tuesdays so doesn't benefit from the extra day's holiday. Should she be allowed to take an extra another time?

Our feeling is yes she should. Boss says no, it's a perk and it's just unfortunate she doesn't benefit from it.

Can anyone advise please?

OP posts:
SmiteTheeWithThunderbolts · 30/10/2019 06:56

Christmas closure is common in the HE sector.

In one university I've seen it stated in the annual leave policy that closure days are not part of annual leave and therefore part time staff don't get it pro-rated (which works both ways - if 'too many' closure days fall on their working days in a particular year, they don't have to use their AL allowance to cover the extra). Also clearly stated (for all staff) that closure days are an operational decision and therefore no entitlement to them happening in perpetuity (ie they don't form part of the employee's T&Cs in the way AL entitlement does).

Another university includes closure days with Bank Holidays for pro rating. And if too many of either fall on a part timer's work days, they have to use AL to cover the extra.

If your friend kicks up a fuss I think she risks the boss deciding to withdraw the closure day, or worse, still close for 'operational reasons' but make staff take it from their AL.

MrsCollinssettled · 30/10/2019 07:02

To give the pt worker a day off would be discriminatory as they would gain greater benefit proportionately than a full time person. Additionally anyone who already has booked the day as leave would want to be given an extra day.

You then have the problem of when they take the additional day. If they choose when to take it you would then be faced with other staff saying that the day doesn't suit them and they want a different day off.

The business then cannot achieve its objective so would be entitled to withdraw the proposed closure.

Your pt friend isn't being discriminated against and pushing to gain unwarranted extra leave will only probably result in the business not being able to make some savings from not being open. Do they really want to be responsible for that- not to mention how their colleagues will feel?

CallmeAngelina · 30/10/2019 07:12

So, probably a silly example, but if someone brought in nice cake for coffee break on a day when a part-timer was off, would they expect to be brought in some on another day to 'make up' for them having missed out? Or would they just suck it up as one of those things?

FadingStar · 30/10/2019 07:13

I'm part timer and this comes with the territory. I'd be happy my full time colleagues got the day. No way would I complain as it's not actually a holiday.

Teateaandmoretea · 30/10/2019 07:17

I've worked for two companies - one pro rated it and the other didn't.

If it is prorated then the part timers are forced to use some of their annual leave hours to cover the day, like bank holidays. If not then they get it off if it's their work day (so get more) but lose out if it isn't. If you are there a few years it prorates itself and for me is preferred. For one thing what if you prorate it but a part timer has used all their leave? Hardly an unlikely scenario as usually they are women with children!

So I think yabu on this one.

NoParticularPattern · 30/10/2019 07:37

If the deal was that the office would be closed but you all HAD to use a days holiday but they would add an extra day to your basic contractual entitlement (so say your entitlement became 36 days not 35) then she would be entitled to it pro rata. Since it’s just a nice gesture and no one else is actually getting an extra day of holiday pay (ie they’re technically “at work” during that time even though the office is closed) then she is entitled to nothing. If she’s not usually at work on that day then she’s not at work so doesn’t get paid for it. If she was usually at work that day then she would still technically be “at work” in terms of being paid but just wouldn’t actually be in the office the same as everyone else. Either way she’s off that day and still gets paid the same as she usually would.

jay55 · 30/10/2019 07:42

I worked for a company that would generally give a half day Christmas Eve but would only announce on the day. So if you wanted the whole day off you had to book the whole day as holiday. And wouldn't get half a day back later.

MaybeDoctor · 30/10/2019 07:42

I don’t remember a scene in the Muppets Christmas Carol where pt working Muppets asked for a day off at a later date because Mr Scrooge finally came around to the spirit of Christmas and sent all the Muppets home to their families. GrinWink

Disfordarkchocolate · 30/10/2019 07:45

I don't think she's being treated unfairly. People are not getting a days extra holiday the office is closed so they are not required to work. If the days she worked were different she would also be not required to work that day. She's not losing any pay and she's not being denied a day of not working.

Kraggle · 30/10/2019 07:50

She wouldn’t be querying if this was discriminatory if it happened to fall on a day she was working and offering up her a/l to cover her pro rata entitlement I’m guessing?

topcat2014 · 30/10/2019 08:03

@witchend your bank holidays should be prorated, so, even if you don't work a Friday you get a proportion of it in your annual leave. Your employer is doing it wrong

ImaginaryCat · 30/10/2019 08:11

On Xmas Eve Eve (23 Dec) whoever is the most senior member of our team makes a judgement call on whether to tell us all to 'work from home' the next day. Several factors affect this... workload, whereabouts of the top dogs, weather, etc.

Naturally some people have already booked Xmas Eve off as annual leave. They lose out. But if they started to complain and ask to cancel their booked leave, thereby flagging up to HR that we might be doing something unofficial, it would cause the directors to end the practice altogether. Everyone accepts it's the gamble you take each year.

When the bosses make a nice gesture, don't be the dick who turns it into a problem.

leghairdontcare · 30/10/2019 08:19

I don't think it helps that lots of people are comparing the situation to banks holidays which are usually contractual and should be pro-rated.

Strangerthingshere · 30/10/2019 08:50

And why do I care? someone asked.... why does anyone care about anything? just because I'm interested, she's my colleague, it's just a conversation..... why do you care enough to ask "why do you care?" Weird

I asked because you seemed overly invested and I wondered it it was in fact you.

When the bosses make a nice gesture, don't be the dick who turns it into a problem

Imaginarycat there is always one

rookiemere · 30/10/2019 08:55

At the minute I'm deciding if I should take Christmas Eve as annual leave as we're traveling to visit relatives. However last few years we've been told to go home around 1pm which would suit fine as a departure rime, but it's not guaranteed so it's a gamble.

Equally our christmas party falls on my non working day so I'm changing my days that week to come in.

It's swings and roundabouts and whilst I can see why reduced hours person feels they've missed out , I don't think it's something to make a big deal out of or natural conclusion from manager would be to remove the perk for all.

Shinyletsbebadguys · 30/10/2019 09:01

Oh blimey there is always one. (Or five )

A couple of months ago I let a member of staff pop out for sanitary protection as she had been caught short and covered the floor for her. She was out 15 minutes.

For two weeks after I got demands that I do the same thing for the team (they didn't know what she had gone for I just said a personal issue ). One demanded that contractually it should be same rules for all (their contracts do not say that at all). Actual demands for extra 15 minute breaks.

Eventually the poor woman lost her temper told them all why and told them they were dicks for being so grabby.

Lesson learnt....never be nice !!! There is always someone who will insist they are entitled.

Bosses are being nice stop looking for an injustice where there isn't one

titchy · 30/10/2019 09:08

If you have Mondays off because you’re PT, and then it’s a bank holiday, you don’t get an extra day off.

Yes you do. Illegal otherwise. However as this extra day is a one-off perk and isn't a contractual benefit I suspect she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

confusedandemployed · 30/10/2019 09:21

Bottom line is she is entitled to pro rated time off another day. She cannot be treated less favourably because she is PT.
However, IMO boss has made a mistake announcing this in October, he should just have closed up shop at 9.30am on Christmas Eve as an impromptu gesture.

confusedandemployed · 30/10/2019 09:22

And yes, ALL part timers get a pro rated amount of bank hols, and people who work Mon-Wed get the same as people who work Wed-Fri. They just take the time elsewhere.

Crazyladee · 30/10/2019 09:25

I don't think it's discrimination at all.

You have to physically be rostered in work at the time to benefit from the treat.

This is the reason why my boss used to announce an early closure on the actual day instead of in advance.

Why is your friend so bothered? It's not affecting her whatsoever. She would be having a day at home regardless. The only scenario that would be unfair would be if anyone had booked the day off as annual leave to be then told it can't be cancelled. (so it wouldnt come out of their holiday entitlement) which is what happened to someone I know.

Kicking up a massive fuss would put the whole thing in jeopardy for everyone else and if that happened, she'd be popular. (sarcasm)

Scarydinosaurs · 30/10/2019 09:45

titchy so sorry- in my workplace when I was PT my holidays were set by closures, so we were all off at the same time, and BHs were just extra days off FT got. No one ever picked a Monday for a day off because of bank holidays.

rslsys · 30/10/2019 09:47

So if the office was closed on a part-timer's non working day because it was flooded. Would the part-timer be demanding an extra day's pay because colleagues had been paid for that day but told not to come in?

Original poster
Kbear · 30/10/2019 09:48

Strangerthingshere - so starting a chat is now being overly invested - she's a colleague, we discussed it today, I thought I'd see what Mumsnet thought... like one does.

Jeez What happened to
Mumsnet ???

OP posts:
Mrsmememe · 30/10/2019 09:48

It’s a bit like saying if you don’t work a Monday you should get the bank holiday rate/holiday as an extra too. Makes no sense. You’re on another planet.

Strangerthingshere · 30/10/2019 09:56

@Kbear no not starting a chat, just the way it was written and your replies got me wondering if it was indeed you as you seemed to really care, whereas it doesn't really mention whether your friend is actually that bothered.

Anyway you clarified, it's your friend, so I'll bow out, as enough people have already told you that she needs to get over it, in more polite ways of course Grin