No DBS check, working with DC, is this weird?

[EIfAndSafety]

NC because this is mega outing.

DD has recently been offered a job as an elf in a Santa's grotto in a large shopping mall nearby. She's one of literally dozens they've taken on, plus a couple of Santas. The Santas have been DBS checked, but not the elves.

We think this is a bit odd - not to mention concerning - given the elves have just as much if not more contact with the children as they have to entertain them as they queue. They've been given an information pack which includes details of 'implicit consent' from children which allows the elves to hold their hands etc, and what constitutes acceptable contact. To my and DD's minds, the very fact that there's a need to state this (and the fact the Santas are subject to checks) suggests the need for DBS checking.

It's a huge company which runs grottos all over the UK so I'm guessing they don't much fancy paying for thousands of checks for what's a very short term job, but that's not really the point is it?

The interview process was a group role play, no one-on-one interviews, and roles were offered next day. At no point has DD been made aware of any checks.

Does this sound odd to anyone else, or is it just us overthinking?

Will they have time when they are completely alone with the kids?

DD says when they take them into the grotto it's just the kids, santa and the elves. Santa is never alone with them either, yet they've all been checked.

Exactly that. No need if never alone with children.

What I mean is is there any regulated activity where an elf could be alone with a child? There are instances where a DBS is not required. If the activity is completely supervised and there will be an accompanying adult that might be the rationale used by the company.

If the only interaction with the kids is in the queue and you could reasonably expect a parent or guardian to be with the child the whole time, then I suspect a DBS check (although good practice) isn't necessarily required.

I can see why they might want to DBS check the elves, but not that it’s strictly necessary. So long as they aren’t ever alone with the children.

If they aren’t alone with the children, or in a position of trust, there’s no need
Presumably the children will be with their parents the whole time that the elves are interacting with them anyway?

Is the elf ever alone, unsupervised without a DBSed employee or parent present?

Within the volunteer sector, casual (sporadic) and supervised volunteering is exempt from DBS e.g. termly volunteer rota at Scouts/ Guides. It is low risk as the position is supervised and of a short duration limiting opportunity to establish grooming/ misconduct.

I suppose the difference between Santa and the elves is that the kids are going in for closer contact with Santa; sitting on his/her lap, having a hug.

She wont ever be alone with the children so she doesn't need a DBS check whereas Santa will have children sitting on his knee or hugging him so a DBS check sounds sensible.

On a separate note what sort of a grotto doesn't allow the parents to see their child meet Santa, surely a huge part of the reason parents take their children is to see them experience the magic?

This is all very reassuring, thanks all.

I think our main concern was that the Santas are checked but the elves aren't - the discrepancy seemed odd, given that both have roughly the same contact with the children. But I see the sense of what you're all saying.

DH's work recently rolled out compulsory DBS checks for all staff, and he's office-based in the charity sector so has little contact with the public (other than on the phone occasionally) let alone with children, so it did seem a bit odd that those who work directly with children weren't being checked.

DBS checks happen less often that you think. I worked in a library for a bit where you obviously have lots of contact with children but the council took the view we were never on our own with the kids.

I’d be frankly more suspicious of DH’s company. I’d like to know why they thought that necessary. He knows the company cannot keep copies of his DBS right?

Also are the elves younger? Getting DBS checks for 16/17 year olds is a PITA - it's difficult to have the proof of address. My son recently had to do it as he's qualified as a lifeguard and fortunately we were able to go into the local branch of his bank and ask for a bank statement with the address on, otherwise the only option would have been to ask his new college to write him a letter telling him what his address is!

DH's work recently rolled out compulsory DBS checks for all staff

Did they check that this was lawful? You are not allowed to check just anyone, and you are not allowed to go on fishing expeditions.

How old is he? Maybe if they are under 18 they can't DBS ?

Sorry , she?

We all have to be DBS checked where I work. It's for all offences, not just where children may be involved. So if someone had a fraud conviction they probably would get a job handling money etc.

It's legit. I started work at one school before my DBS had come through - I'd obviously passed the barred list checks, but the Met was taking around 4-5 months per application at that point; as long as I wasn't alone with the kids, it was fine. When they didn't renew it in time a few years later as per their own procedures, it very conveniently got me out of having to supervise afterschool stuff for a while, too, but they'd sped up their procedures by then, so it only took a month.

If anybody gets a DBS for any job, though, I'd recommend that they immediately register it with the Update Service - it's about £13 per year and if you do that, although not everywhere is able to accept it completely, having that active means that subsequent applications only take a couple of weeks.

DH is a union rep and he looked into it when they were all checked and apparently, they're within their rights to do that.

@Bellyfullofbiscuits DD is 22 (it's a holiday job while she's at uni). She says the elves' ages are anything from 18 up - there were a fair few 50+ elves at the audition, so it's definitely not just teenagers.

Massive amount of misunderstanding about DBS.

There are three levels of checks. Anyone can get a BASIC DBS at any time, for any reason. All a basic disclosure shows is your current, unspent criminal record. (Spent as in spent under Rehabilitation of Offenders Legislation).

The other levels of checking are Standard and Enhanced. These are ONLY open to people working in regulated activity. This might be in positions of responsibility (traffic warden, officer in the court, solicitor) or with vulnerable groups like children, patients in hospital or the disabled. These types of checks may or may not show spent convictions depending on hte nature of the offence and the type of work under consideration.

Organisations cannot ask for standard or enhanced disclosures for work which does not constitute regulated activity. It's illegal to do so.

The store has quite rightly assessed that a Santa is more of a "risk" in that they have closer contact with children. A helper is mainly working in public with lots of children and their parents and the public around. They have obviously thought through the safeguarding training. This is as much for the elf's protection against false accusations as it is for the child's.

Also a DBS check can take four to six weeks. By the time all the elves had filled in the forms, schlepped along with their passport, driving licecnce and a utility bill, sent the forms off and got their certificate in the post, it's the New Year.

@OtraCosaMariposa thanks for clarifying. I suppose DH's work checks were because it's a charity whose work in part deals with vulnerable people, although not all staff have contact with them, particularly office based staff. Not sure how for all staff this constitutes a regulated activity though. Perhaps it's to cover them in case their roles change, as often happens, so they won't have to wait for checks to come through.

They may be running basic disclosures on everyone. Standard disclosure might be appropriate for people managing the bank accounts or on the board as their "reputation" needs to be solid.

You don’t need to DBS check an elf anymore than you need to check an ordinary shop assistant

They’re not alone with the children, so they don’t need a DBS. It would cost a fortune to check them all.