I’m at my wits end; older child sleep help

[WingingWonder]

My older child was an awful sleeper as a babies adtercreflux and colic I think justvkeft bad sleep associations
At 2.5 years we finally had a moment and kind of cracked it but now at 8.5 years we s we k to be in some kind of anxious sleep regression hell
It takes HOURS to help him sleep
If I leave him to it he gets anxious and panicky but can’t explain it- basically worried about how to get to sleep etc
He has a good routine, healthy diet and no underlying health issues
We had a disruptive younger sibling hutveven if he’s not here it’s the same
We have a bedtime routine of snack (banana and peanut butter- recommends with warm milk) and then a bath, stories - either I read to them or them to us, and then... well not sleep
It’s breaking me
I work FT
I have no quality time with either child in the evenings because it’s all taken up trying to get people to bed
I eat dinner faaaaar too late or not at all
I work FT so then shattered after (ironically) I stay up late to carve out a moment of calm (like 1/2 am to be up at 6-30am if younger child doesn’t have me up sooner
My relationship is suffering
It’s so stressful
Anyone any amazing ‘today his worked for us’ suggestions or alternatively professional help- most seem to be either young child or teen focussed?

Thanks

Is he worried about anything in particular?
My son, who does have a genetic disorder and underlying health issues has been having a rough time of late and, we've gotten help from the school. They're helping us with relaxation techniques. Here's a few they've suggested.

1. Wind down for 30 mins with some calming lights and music ( you could do this with younger sibling too ) eg. Lava lamp, plug in light changer and some soothing music on Spotify or the like.
2. Theres some books about sleep worries amongst children, just search on Amazon. They're really helpful.
3. A sleep chart/diary. Maybe that could give him some comfort with perhaps a treat for a good week? Etc. Again, Amazon.
4. Gro clock.. you probably had them when they were babies but, we kept ours and it actually works fab. My son is a very earlier riser but, knows he has to stay in his bed until the sunshine appears.

I hope these help. You sound like you're doing a fab job!!
I feel for you though, it's so tough.

Hugs.

My son was much younger then yours when this worked for me, but one thing I tried was allowing him to buy some things for his room that made it feel more comfortable for him.

We changed his lampshade and he chose some new bedsheets and a few other little items. I think it worked because it made it feel like the room was his and he'd put his own mark on it if that makes sense.

Following. 10yo and autistic here. It's more anxiety and meltdown during the evening but I can totally relate to the emotional & physical toll, and staying up late to try to carve out a bit of sanity.

What time are lights out for him? How light is his room? Is it possible there just aren't physically enough hours between you picking him up and lights out for him to wind down properly? Our whole bedtime routine takes about 2 hours.

If it's mainly anxiety, you may find it improves over half term if you can give him lots of downtime. I would almost be tempted to just stick a mattress in his room and lie down in the dark with him. At least it would give you a bit of mental space.

Could you do a deal with him and say if he stays quietly in his room after bedtime until you come up to bed then you’ll stay with him when you come up if he’s not asleep? I found this worked with dd as she wasn’t anxious about falling asleep as she knew I’d be up at 10pm. The odd occasion she was still awake I would jump into bed with her until she fell asleep. Sometimes I’d end up there all night but not often.

Most of the other methods I tried just increased her anxiety.

Ah yes, we also say we will pop in at 10pm or something and if he is awake he can go and sleep in our bed. It hardly ever happens, and if it does he is normally happy to be walked back to his bed when we come up. It helps that DH snores!!

I've always been a night owl. Bedtime was 7pm and I was often still awake after 9pm. I just couldn't fall asleep.
It helped my parents (and eventually me) to
have the radio or a cassette playing in the background. I would just listen to it until eventually falling asleep.

What time does he go up to bed and what time does he fall asleep? Could he be a night owl and getting frustrated with having to be in his bed when he is not tired?

You do need to reclaim your evenings for yourself though. Our DC go up around 8pm and if they're not sleepy (my 7yo is a night owl!) they are allowed to do quiet things in their rooms - read or listen to an audio book, or play quietly with their toys.

One will fall asleep pretty much straight away, but at 9pm we often have to tell the 7yo to switch on one of the more 'sleepy' audio books which normally helps her fall asleep.

It's late for a 7yo I know, but she's just not tired before then and can't cope with 'must go to sleep' pressure. At least this way, she's relaxing from 8pm, we get our evening and there's no stress. She does sleep as late as possible in the morning - 7am on school days or about 9am on weekends / holidays.

Have you tried sensory lights? So he has something to focus on xx

There's an app for this.

It's that story that's read allowed and all kids fall asleep in 20 mins flat. It works psychologically.

I will see if I can find it hang on

apps.apple.com/gb/app/moshi-twilight-sleep-stories/id1306719339

You can get books that do the same thing but that means you have to do it. And you have to read it in a very particular way for it to work. And if you're anything like me, fuck that when there's an app.

I'm all for book reading but age 8.5 they should be reading to themselves.

Try that app.

*aloud

Not allowed doh

Audio books!