Scotland and the Smacking Ban

[Pumperthepumper]

Absolutely delighted to see the news yesterday. Couldn’t see a thread about it but sorry if I’ve missed one. Will the rest of the UK follow, do you think?

I really really hope so pumper and I agree it's great news. Maybe we should start a MN campaign to try to make this happen in England too

Excellent news. And before the "it never did me any harm" brigade start, it killed and injured a lot of other kids.

Another good move by Scotland.

Surely it's always been illegal to kill and injure kids?

I think the current rule of reasonable force is sufficient

I think its intrusive and will be unevenly applied to poorer families. I dont smack but I have a stable life with no serious issues. I can very easily see how a parent under pressure might snap and smack and I think criminalising smacking is excessive.

@MorrisZapp as I understand it, until recently in Scotland it was legal to justifiably assault your child. Now it isn’t.

I can very easily see how a parent under pressure might snap and smack

I have never understood this argument. In what other circumstance can you get away with smacking someone under pressure? Not at work. Not in a relationship. Not in the street. Not if you’re caring for an older person. Only if it’s your own children and they’re smaller than you and they push you to it.

I agree OP. No different from any other form of domestic abuse.

I agree! You wouldn't smack your boss or colleagues of they pushed you 'too far' so why would you ever assault your children who you should protect?

If my colleague or any other adult bit me, slapped me or kicked me yes I would most likely slap them. If it was a child I'd consider slapping them on the bum, if it was an adult probably a slap on the cheek. To those "you wouldn't slap an adult " posters.

And before the "it never did me any harm" brigade start, it killed and injured a lot of other kids.

This ^

And also, I never understand the 'i was smacked and it never did me any harm', it absolutely did do harm if people think it's ok to assault children.

Excellent!

I must say I thought it was illegal to smack children in England too, shows how little I know but a long time since I had a small child (& I didn't smack anyway).

If my colleague or any other adult bit me, slapped me or kicked me yes I would most likely slap them. If it was a child I'd consider slapping them on the bum, if it was an adult probably a slap on the cheek. To those "you wouldn't slap an adult " posters.

So if you worked in a old peoples home or were caring for an elderly relative with dementia would you do this too? Or would you find a more caring alternative, just like you should with kids.

I don't think criminalisation is particularly helpful. I draw a distinction between beating or hitting a child very hard (eg to leave a mark), which is already illegal, and a light slap on the arm for example (which I consider very poor parenting, but I believe warrants supportive intervention rather than prosecution). This law will criminalise parents who need help rather than a criminal record.

I also don't see where it leaves child protection services. Are all children who receive any kind of smack to be removed from their parents? Permanently? If not, what's the point of it being illegal? If so, I suspect many children will come into the care system who would be better off remaining in an imperfect family environment with support in place.

I think the current rule of reasonable force is sufficient

So can I use reasonable force to chastise a colleague? Why not?

Last time I was at my GP surgery their signs said "zero tolerance to abuse". Should they have to accept reasonable force of a patient has a complaint?

Or is it just those more vulnerable and with less power?

What about prisoners?

Patients detained under the Mental Health Act?

Wives? It used to be legal for a husband to hit his wife to keep her in line.

Who else is it ok to assault? Because you don't even have to lay a finger on someone to have committed an offence of common assault. So why should parents have some special right to assault their children?

I have to admit, before all the talk of the legislation I had taken it for granted it was actually illegal to smack your child. And I live in Scotland.

Spoke to dc7 about how he felt about it a few weeks ago and he couldn't understand why it wouldn't be ok for me to hit his dad but would be for me to hit him. Makes no sense to be able to hit the most vulnerable and impressionable of society. I was smacked as a child and I wouldn't make my dc feel the way I felt.

I think it’s madness. It won’t stop abusive adults from harming DC.

It will stop a loving DP giving (for e.g.) little Tommy a slap on the wrist/bottom when he squirms away from his DP and tries to bolt across a busy road.

I was smacked by one parent when naughty and given the cold shoulder by the other as a punishment. The emotional toll of my ‘D’M’s emotional punishments haunt me to this day. The smacks caused no lasting effect.

I have smacked my DC, when they have put themselves in real danger when repeatedly warned not to. Never in anger, and I have never had to do it twice.

I think most DP are best placed to know what works for their DC. Those who would use real force on their DC were flouting the law anyway and this new legislation will make no difference.

gracepoolesmum surely the more important thing is to change attitudes. Like before it was illegal to hit your wife -v- afterwards. Still goes on but no longer socially acceptable

Welsh Government are working on banning smacking too. Welsh Conservatives are opposing it so I can't imagine it happening in England with the current government. England are always last to catch on with how we treat public health and wellbeing. Same with the smoking ban.

I was particularly struck by one particular line in the BBC report, stating that "children now have the same protection from assault as adults." When it's put like that it seems despicable that it's not been made illegal sooner.
I also wholeheartedly disagree with people justifying it because a parent has been "pushed" by their child in the pressure of the moment. As a pp said, if someone pushes you that far in any other situation, be it work, on the street, an older person you're caring for, it would not be accepted. So why do people think it's ok for a child, who is smaller and unable to defend themselves, to take it?
I definitively hope the rest of the UK follows suit, and fast.

I grew up in a country where all physical chastisement or punishment was illegal. It still happened but it just meant that in more serious cases carers couldn't justify their actions in court by saying they were using reasonable force.

It will stop a loving DP giving (for e.g.) little Tommy a slap on the wrist/bottom when he squirms away from his DP and tries to bolt across a busy road.

I disagree. It's not loving to hit someone. And nor does everyone's kids who aren't hit run out into the road. People will have to find other ways, like everyone else does currently who don't hit their children.

I don’t see the benefit in criminalising a smack. It will result in lots of unnecessary interventions and stress about minor incidents but won’t prevent genuine abuse. Those who want to smack will still do it regardless.

Well Cinnomoncake you could always drag them around all day on reins. Hold their little hands so tight you cut off the circulation. Shriek at the toddler for running away. But are those solutions any better/ kinder than a smack, for a toddler with whom you can’t reason?