I am not strict enough with DD?

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Had a conversation recently with DM. We get on well and normally she praises my parenting, although does hint with how she has done things different occasionally. Today, however, we had a conservation that irritated me abit. Basically, DS is 2 and like most 2 year old wants to run about and play. Since walking I have found it hard whenever we go anywhere like for a meal as he does not want to sit in his highchair for long. I recently went shopping with family and it was just too hard work. He wants to run all over the place. I obviously stopped him/tried to distract. This can often result in a tantrum.
Normally because of this I avoid such places with him. My mum has now said this shouldn't be the case that I am not strict enough with him. She said I never behaved like that because I knew not to.
DH disagrees said he is 2 and just behaving like a normal 2 year old. He is clearly bored when shopping/in a restaurant so looking for things to do. Just wondered what others thought?

I think both of them are right tbh.

Your son is acting like a typical two year old. But your mum is right that you shouldn’t ‘allow’ bad behaviour - but that might mean that if he starts running around he gets strapped into a high chair or has reins. Or it might mean he gets removed from the situation entirely - if that means taking him home then so be it.

Obviously you can’t always do this - but if the issue is mainly when out with your mum then just limit your time out with her that would be boring for DS.

Easier said than done when you have to get a shop done I know!

I forget in a year, with 4 kids one after the next (4 in 5 yrs), how shitty things really were. So I think your mum remembers Jack shit about the reality of you at 2.

She’s remembering you at 5 and thinks it was you at 2. I guarantee it😂

My lovely mum told me that she just worried how many I had close together (valid). She said she just wanted me to enjoy each one being a baby like she did. I had to gently remind her that she had PND for a huge chunk of my babyhood (she told me this, zero criticism just a fact) so her memory on how wonderful the time was is a bit selective.

I also heartily agree that your mum is looking back fondly at when you were a toddler!

....through rose tinted glasses!

PuffHuffle
Of course we all have to take kids to the shops, mine probably went in one several times a week! Shopping is an essential part of life.
What I don’t agree with is kids been taken to shopping centres for a day out, browsing round hot shops then being yelled at because they’re exhibiting signs of understandable boredom.

Eating out with a toddler is not pleasurable. Unless it involved a wider social group, we pretty much gave up going anywhere that involved lingering (especially when you are made to wait aeons for the bill at the end when toddler is fed, bored, and all distraction/ restraining/ going for walks/ tag teaming etc have been exhausted. We did lots of practice at Morrisons Cafe at quiet times!

Even now with school age children, I'm still careful about where we go. Things like shopping in town are to the point, and involve bribery (usually a browse in the toyshop as an incentive). I remember loathing some particular clothes shops and sitting, sulking under the clothes rails (particularly Wallis and Monsoon ) I was a bit older than a toddler by then, but inderterminate browsing was sooo boring!

So yes it is normal for a toddler, and it is normal to have to manage the behaviour and weather the phase out. Getting overly strict and stressed over a child who is not ready to behave like a civilised grown-up is just a misery for all. That's not saying "oh bless the little darlings" indulgently and letting them cause chaos.

Ok my children are beautifully behaved when it comes to eating out but here is what happens

Arrive at child friendly place (AKA pizza express)
Order the food before sitting down (studied menu pre or know it off by hand)
We are out of their about 45 minutes later

I will not take my children to a ‘pub lunch’ where you know it’s going to take 2 hours
You can eat out with a 2 year old but like everything with 2 year olds it has to be at pace!

We barely ate out and shopped online when dd was that age. If we did have to do a meal out we would take a small new toy with us and take it in turns to wander about outside with her until the meal arrived. It’s an awkward stage. Dd’s ideal way of eating was to roam about and be given bits from our plates at that point. A couple of years later she would happily draw and colour for quite a while in restaurants.

I avoid taking my 2 year old anywhere that is going to be boring for her and a total stress/hassle for me. Why would you?

I have Primary school age children who you can easily enjoy a day of shopping, restaurants and cinema with should you want to, so I see no benefit in going through the stress of trying to do it with a 2 year old.

A reasonably well behaved 5 year old is more than capable of enjoying a meal out without having been practising since they were a baby!

If we do take the 2 year old with us we eat at places like Wetherspoons.

We took our dcs to restaurants at that age - to keep them entertained we
a) ate quickly
b) actively played with them LOADS. Lots of colouring, toys, books etc.

It was hard work 😂 we only did it out of necessity.

I would say the chances that your Mum took you regularly to shopping centres and to restaurants at that age are pretty slim. It just wasn't done as much back then

Mine were born in 87 and 88 and we absolutely did take them to cafes and restaurants from the time they were old enough to sit in a high chair. They coped with shopping expeditions and pretty much everything that normal life involves. It wasn't rocket science and we didn't have to force them or be ogres about it.

I despair at all the responses that say "2 year olds can't do that". It's as if no-one has expectations for their children.
That along with the "you can't expect a16 year old to buy a birthday present" on another thread is depressing me.

Depends on which two year old, perhaps? I really preferred picking my battles at that age. Also, what is more delightful than a busy, mobile happy two year old? The world is so big and so exciting to them at that age, that it’s much more fun to join them in their world than expect them to deal maturely with the grown-up one.

She’s silly to generalize, toddlers are individuals. Most toddlers would find it hard to sit through a meal or behave in a shop, my DS couldn’t so we avoided these sorts of days out until he was older. My DD was a very quiet toddler, would never let go of my hand and was happy coloring. Pure luck what kind of DC you have and most toddlers will be energetic.

Dd’s ideal way of eating was to roam about and be given bits from our plates at that point.

Did you really feed her like that?

Not often. We had meals at the table together like most people. Sometimes when there were visitors over and we used to have a buffet, then she would circulate between plates. I just remember her really enjoying eating like that at a time when she was a rather fussy eater who didn’t like sitting still.

I agree with your mum to some extent. It seems bizarre to avoid taking a toddler to normal places rather than teaching them how to behave.

2yr olds do run around, but not every second they are awake. If they have ample opportunity to do so elsewhere there's no reason any parent shouldn't be able to get them to walk around the supermarket 'helping' you or spend an hour shopping, have a meal etc.

And for the record, I'm 38 with teens raised on farms, outdoor more than in. So I didn't parent back in the time when people apparently never ate out and rarely went out beyond the nearest shop. Or the opportunity to chase dc in a safe environment whenever I let go of them.

I think that parenting expectations have changed somewhat. It used to be considered good parenting to frighten your children into submission so that you had complete control over them, it's not any more - that would be considered bad parenting. Instead it's now considered better to meet the child where they are somewhat and take their feelings more into account, especially when they are quite young like under 5 or so. Of course this isn't a massively recent change and if you're under about 25 you were probably parented mostly in the "new way" anyway, but there were hangovers for a long time about "needing to have control" which I think our parents' generation still have in mind, and they find it harder to take it seriously if we are what they see as "pandering" to toddlers.

it used to be considered good parenting to frighten your children into submission so that you had complete control over them

Oh dear god! Teaching your DC to sit nicely at the dinner table does not involve any frightening them into submission. I’m sorry if you were raised that way but it really is not and was not the norm.

Sorry but at 2 they can sit on your lap at the table/highchair or in a pushchair, that is 100% the age you teach them to walk nicely holding hands or they get strapped in. If you don't start young you end up with older kids who can't sit nicely as they're not used to it.
I've never not taken mine out and yes it's hard work but the hard work pays off into well behaved kids which are easier in the long run.

If you don't start young you end up with older kids who can't sit nicely as they're not used to it.
You really don't need to take a toddler out to restaurants to ensure they will be able to sit nicely in one when older

You can go through all the hassle of training a toddler to sit through a restaurant meal, or you can just avoid it until they're 4 and will appreciate a bit of conversation and occupy themselves reading or drawing. There's zero difference in outcome.

Joxer, where on earth did I say that it did? Some parts of parenting have never changed. But plenty of old fashioned parenting relied on a hierarchical notion of respect, which comes down to fear.

Lots of vague parenting stuff relates to fear - "The look" - it's not a kind, understanding look, is it? It's a scary one. "I would never have dared to do that as a child" - because you were afraid of the consequences. "Do this... or else" is a threat.

If that’s not what you meant then what relevance doesn’t your comment have to this thread? OPs Mum didn’t suggest frightening the child into sitting at the table. I can’t see where anyone on the thread has suggested it either.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/25/30-year-child-health-study-parenting-alspac-jean-golding

This is a really interesting article that not just deals with childrens health but behaviour to. There is a section about locus of control.
"This identifies people as either “internals”, who feel they have some control over their fate, and “externals”, who think life happens to them and there isn’t much point in trying to change it. “The main psychologist in the field pushed for us to include questions on this from the start,” says Golding, “and it turns out to have a big effect on the way people live and parent.
Children of externals are much more likely to be hyperactive, not sleep well, and have tantrums, and at age eight there is a huge difference in IQ [lower]. The really exciting thing is that you can change locus of control. We are now trying to gather enough evidence to convince people that this could have real benefits for the population.”

I think things like quoted above make such a difference to the behaviour of our children. If we think we cannot do anything about their behaviour it can lead to other problems. If we think we can alter or be at least partly in control we will likely have better outcomes. So for what your mum and previous pp said the right response is somewhere in the middle for how we go about with our childrens behaviour.

Running in a restaurant not acceptable. Shorter meal but in high chair, as that is a two year olds attention span - a good idea.

(Obviously this relates to neuro-typical children. This is not at all a SN bashing in any way at all)

If going shopping is something you do for necessity then he'll have to learn to behave.

We actually did have to do it more than kids nowadays because internet shopping didn't exist so I doubt your mum is exaggerating.

But I wouldn't be doing these things for every trip to meet your mum.

Why can't you meet her at a country park or a soft play or both take him swimming where she can see that in toddler environments he's actually fine?

I don't think either of you is wrong. But I do think she needs to develop a more positive relationship with him.

Completely normal.
I totally avoided restaurants.
Only went shopping briefly with child always strapped into the buggy.

Friend told me never to let them out of the buggy while shopping or I'd have murder going forward. Great advice.

Ignore your mum, she has false memory!