Ridiculous thread about cows milk

[Fantasisa]

I'm prepared to be flamed but I'm contemplating giving up cow's milk (but not becoming vegan/vegetarian) because I can't stand the thought of cow's being separated from their calves and then used as milking machines. I think the fact that I'm breastfeeding DS1 at the moment might be adding to my feelings.

Does anyone else avoid milk for a similar reason but continue to eat other animal products?

And free range / organic just applies to the chickens, it doesn’t guarantee that male chicks haven’t been ground up alive. In fact, in the UK, it isn’t possible to buy commercial eggs where male chicks haven’t been ground up alive.

Although the thought of cows calling to their babies is distressing you have to be careful not to think of cows as human. Cows don't love their calves, it's a biological instinct to keep them safe, same as any other animal. Some cows kill new born calves, their own and others according to a video I watched recently.

I have a friend with a pony stud and watched the relationships between the herd. A mare will protect the foal and allow it to nurse but it's grudgingly once that first rush of hormones has gone. Some marea reject their foals, some even try and kill them. Once the foals are weaned (usually about 6 months) the mare does call for a few days but it's because her bag is full. Once her milk has dried up that's it. Probably the same with cattle.

I think that is great and good for you.
A little step at a time. Just because you eat cheese and other animal products does not mean you shouldn't stop drinking cow's milk. You are making a conscious decision to create as less pain as possible. People who say that you should cut off all animal products just because you are cutting out one product are just rage talking because they do not have the strength to minimize the suffering cause to animals. They secretly admire you and are jealous of you for doing what they wish they could. At least you are doing something so well done.

Not for the same reason as you (my stomach gets upset from cow's milk) but I've switched to oat milk because from the alternatives it has one of the lower environmental impacts and I even prefer the taste over actual milk. I use Oatly but there are other brands and I've noticed a difference in taste and texture between them so might take you a few tries to find the one you like best.

Oh gawd, I'm going to end up as a vegan by the end of my own thread.

My friend keeps very free range chickens so I'm happy with how we source our eggs. Not everyone can do that though.

Eating ethically sourced food is tough when out and about. There should be some sort of accreditation so we know where to go.

I’ve got a friend in the industry who says it’s better if the calves are taken away ASAP as they have less time to bond with their mothers. Make of that what you will but it’s an argument against letting them stay together for long after birth.

Although the thought of cows calling to their babies is distressing you have to be careful not to think of cows as human. Cows don't love their calves, it's a biological instinct to keep them safe, same as any other animal.

You are wrong. There’s plenty of research available on this. And it’s not a case of thinking of a cow as a human, it’s being aware of the fact that humans are not the only sentient mammals on the planet.

No.
I like all things dairy too much.

Well done op. I think I might join you. As PP has suggested up thread I won't be strict about it but will try swapping to oat milk for tea etc. I think the "barrista" stuff is supposed to be good in hot drinks.

Yes, @dirtywindow, I was reading that the barista ones don't curdle as much and can be heated to higher temperatures. I presume I should be going for unsweetened soya milk so I'm not inadvertently consuming lots of extra sugar...

Our local herd is treated very well by a farmer who has doted in successive generations of the herd. Yes, the mums and babies cry when they are separated but have you ever had a new kitten or puppy? They settle soon enough.

Eat or drink what you want. It is a personal decision and doesn’t need to be a source of public discussion.

Looking into organic milk might be a way to go?

www.soilassociation.org/organic-living/why-organic/better-for-animals/organic-cows/

I agree with laying off people attempting small steps. Millions of small steps can have a big impact.

If everything that didn't need to be a source of public discussion was kept personal, Mumsnet would be very quiet!

I don't have dairy because of lactose intolerance, but still eat meat. I think it's more humane to just slaughter an animal than to impregnate it, separate it from it's child and milk it year after year.

Almond/coconut milk is far nicer anyway.

Fantasia Why not just talk straight. You don't approve of cows being milked. Fine but don't dress it up as wide eyed innocence.

OP I do have shop bought dairy but have heard of this
So just posting in case it's of use to you

www.ahimsamilk.org/

PS I have oat milk sometimes and I like it

100% agree with @funghi

These threads are always filled with ridiculous people.

‘IF YOU WANT TO GIVE UP EATING MEAT THEN YOU BETTER GET RID OF YOUR LEATHER SHOES TOO’

No.

Giving up one thing out of a hundred doesn’t make you a hypocrite, it means you’re making a difference to that one thing. You’re making a change and that’s better than nothing.

It would be like saying ‘don’t bother giving that £1 to charity because they need £10000000’. Go away.

OP, I completely see what you mean, when I was breastfeeding it really brought home what cows go through in the dairy industry. I was already veggie but have also cut down on milk based food. Although not cut it out together.

If everything did one relatively small thing like stop buying milk or only eating meat a couple of times a week it would probably make more difference to the planet and animal welfare than just a few people becoming vegan and having to deal with non-vegans calling them hypocrites because they once ate a Haribo.

I have oat milk because of my IBS and prefer it. My friend make me a cuppa with cow's milk a couple of days and it tasted off even when it wasn't.

I don't eat chicken because I feel that they are treated as disposable because it's cheap meat. At some point I will pro ably end up vegetarian (though I don't know how my IBS will cope with more vegetables!)

To everyone predictably jumping in with 'well you need to give up all milk products too' If I declared I was trying to use my car less, would you all start yelping that it wasn't good enough, only zero car journeys was acceptable? Don't bother answering, I've been on here long enough to know the answer
Does op need to do that? I hate the idea of the dairy industry but have very weak bones and a vegan diet is potentially disastrous for me. I drink soya milk and have soya yoghurts but do eat cheese. I'm trying my best.
Well done op, cutting down on dairy is a good thing!

Sounds great OP.

I use oat milk in porridge and hot chocolate these days, don't drink it otherwise. But will have the odd bit of cheese, ice cream, small steps and all.

I would once have said I could never be veggie but have now cut down on meat by about 75%, no need to label yourself just make your own choices and try to do what you can

Not wishing to derail the thread but since OP will have to figure this out anyway, can I ask how people with kids who avoid dairy make sure they get enough calcium?

My dd might be going to go dairy free (not getting into reasons as that will def derail)

How do people justify environmental impact from alternative milks?

I’ve heard that things like almond milk and the like are actually worse for the environment as it’s intensive farming

Btw I realise it's easy to google calcium sources but I wondered what people do in practice/any tips.

If OP just switches to say oat milk is that going to be less calcium

Most alternative milks are fortified with calcium/B12 I think. I have to be honest, I've never really considered it....