Getting zero respect at work

[Yeahsurewhatever]

I was promoted about a year ago to a management position.
In my industry there are a lot more men than women.
In my particular role or higher there are almost no women.
In my role almost everyone is at least 5 (normally 10+) years older than me.

I also look very very young.
And obviously I'm one of the newest to the position in my company.

I get absolutely no respect and my ideas, thought, instructions, requests whatever are just not listened to. I generally feel like I go into situations (like meetings, projects etc) quite chilled, knowing what I need to know, but working politely with people, to make a pleasant environment, but instead people see this as me not being in control of the environment and they try to take over and before I know it I'm in a power struggle, starting on the back foot.

My older male colleagues say I need to be bossier, and that I am too polite.
I see them with staff and I would not dream of speaking to people how they do. And yet, I find if I give a single clear instruction people comment about how bossy I am being.

From feedback from people that actually know me, I know I am good at my job, I am not disliked by other staff members, im just not commanding any sort of authority.

Does anyone have any advice on what you do, how you approach things, how you have earned respect etc from colleagues and how you deal with it when someone you manage is not doing their job - without everyone just thinking you're a 'bitch'
Because I obviously haven't got a clue.

Yes I did.
As I said, having been told I'm being too harsh or blunt (even though clearly I'm not being), I find I try to compensate by making it less direct and use lots of 'i thinks' and 'I feels.'
But that's BS too isn't it.

I think you’re on a hiding to nothing in your firm. It sounds as though there are double standards everywhere you look.

If an employee isn’t sacked when they’ve committed a sackable offence it makes a mockery of your policies. If your colleagues don’t support you in public then you’re very vulnerable. You’re being undermined.
As a new manager you should be supported and challenged. Your sex has nothing to do with it, and if it does you need to take action.

Never ever start a workplace conversation by saying ‘I’m sorry’ unless you’re apologising for something.
Never apologise for doing your job.

Hmmm. Can you find another amazing job? So that your company either have to pay you/listen to you or else you'll go?

I realise not everyone's industry works like this!

Be bossy. Men don't get called bossy, they're assertive or leaders.

My industry is 95% male. I'm bossy.

Welcome to our world 🙁

Could you find yourself a mentor, someone more senior in your industry or company? Tell your manager you are looking for one so it doesn't come as any surprise. A good manager will want to support you to succeed.

Have confidence in your ability and keep going .. there will always be people who complain. See out the good people who will support you. It will get easier, or maybe you just care less as you get more experienced.

Never ever start a workplace conversation by saying ‘I’m sorry’ unless you’re apologising for something.

I think this is really important. It’s right to acknowledge the other person’s feelings, but using something like ‘I can see your upset about this, but (what was wrong, what needs to change)...’

I had a direct report who would cry easily, and, I suspect, to manipulate situations. I found this was the only way to deal with her. It was draining, but eventually she got the message.

you’re upset

Ok. I've been more assertive today.
Trying to stop yourself saying sorry is surprisingly hard!

Awesome, keep it up!

Good news 😀

Interesting that you have started to notice how often 'sorry' comes to your lips. Once you notice, you are 'empowered' to do something about it.

What are you using instead?

[asking for a friend]

Suggest reading up on assertiveness.

A number of your posts confuse your colleagues’ rudeness for assertiveness.

You have to become a version of you that works. Once or twice i have emulated male colleagues exact way of phrasing something and tone and it resulted in a complete. Im 49 so not young. Still struggle with it. First i was young then a mum the aw! A mum returner then ... invisible or a karen in accounts!

This is nothing to do with being young so get on top of it now because it doesnt automatically resolve itself as you get older.

I take advice from some youtube tutorials and i have caught myself in some behaviors that dont help how im perceived.

I also stopped saying sorry only recently though. Wish id stopped decades ago.

Another good one i saw on line, if a colleagues calls out to u when ur at yr desk, instead of doing an immediate 360 degree headspin with a labrador returning a tennis ball to its master's feet speed "yes?!" instead count to 3 and said their name... So. "........ Steve". Instead of ball at feet "yes?!"

If somebody undermines ur opinion with their own say "that may be steve, but..."

If people interrupt u constantly and yr the boss call them out on it. I feel like you cannot let me get to the end of my sentence.

I am always on the look out for these types of tips.

Another very useful phrase at work is ‘That’s not going to work for me’ when you feel like your focus is being moved away from where it needs to be.

I find I try to compensate by making it less direct and use lots of 'i thinks' and 'I feels.'

Please stop doing this!! Never use "I feel" or "I think". It sounds like you're doubting yourself. And stop bloody apologising!! Keep things factual and objective. It's hard to argue against facts. Give clear examples of what you expect and by when. Then follow-up with clear, objective feedback. Repeat the process.

It sounds like you are actually a long way from being direct but perhaps the staff in your organisation aren't used to women who tell them what to do (whereas they seem to have no problem with men being direct, verging on rude). Appalling double standards it seems but you need to do stop pandering to it and be a strong, assertive leader. I'd also stop worrying about being "nice" and focus on being respected and being professional.

Btw don't be manipulated by criers. I used to have a direct report who cried whenever she didn't get her own way. And went running to the big bosses complaining that I was effectively an evil devil bitch. Defend yourself with facts. Believe in yourself. If you don't, no-one else will. Next time you get a crier, just end the meeting, give them time to compose themself and then reconvene.

Your job as a manager is to take the emotion out of these situations. Some staff are great manipulators (often the same ones who are trouble/useless at their jobs) and they get passed on to the next manager because no-one has the balls to tackle them. Sounds a lot like your person that should have been fired but wasn't. I had someone similar. He was a real problem but his line manager was too soft and let him get away with it. Then the problem person was sent to do some client work for my client and I got constant complaints from various client staff. It was impacting our company reputation and our future client income. I tackled it with the rest of the management team (like you OP, I was the only woman and one of the youngest managers). Some of them didn't want to deal with it (they'd all been dodging the issue for years) but I persisted. I was told I was being nasty and it was me disliking the staff member. So I took my own views out of it and I used several written statements from client staff as evidence of the problem instead. They couldn't ignore that.

It can be a hard transition from being one of the gang to managing the gang. Especially for women. You need to remind yourself that you're a leader now, not a follower. And it's not about being everyone's friend or being nice. You have a job to do. Not everyone will like it. You need to get over that.

Have a read of "Nice Girls Don't Get The Corner Office". It's been around for years but still very relevant.
www.amazon.co.uk/Nice-Girls-Dont-Corner-Office/dp/0446531324?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

And also look at your body language. I bet you're also undermining yourself with subservient body language. There's lots of info on Tedx/YouTube about this. I mentored talented young women in one company I worked for and I almost always had to pull them up on body language at work. It made a big difference to their presence.

Also have a look at this great book by Jeff Black on Exexcutive Presence. I attended a 3 day course by him and he's amazing. I learnt so much.
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ODIC2DS/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Thanks everyone
There's some brilliant advice in here

One thing I read last night was if someone interrupts you, keep going, louder if you need to, even if it's weird and awkward.

Have done this twice today already, the other person got uncomfortable and stopped speaking both times! Success!

I've added that book to my reading list too hundred
And you're right, I'm not direct at all. I used to be more so, but after being told I was waaay too blunt and not nice enough I tried to scale back.
I feel empowered from all of you that I can just say what I need to say!

finallyhere so far, I've started to say it, then before I opened my mouth just stopped, and it's silence instead
I haven't thought of anything else but I'm hoping my silence shows authority and dignity rather than deer in headlights.

Other times I just start the conversation with the the instruction, rather than all the sorry but could you.. type stuff.

Today I've also been just telling people what's going to happen
Rather than asking them to if they could do X

Admittedly they've not actually done any more work. But I'm being given excuses and responses or ETAs on the work rather than just being ignored.
..baby steps

rue that's a good one!
I've just spent the last few days ignoring people when they shout me.
I notice other people don't respond to me quickly so im happy to pretend I don't hear them until they are polite and come to my desk, or send me an email, or if they can start responding to me when I talk to them I'll be happy to return the favour.

Sounds like you are doing great OP
Keep it up x

Alternative to sorry being silence shows authority and dignity rather than deer in headlights.

Sounds good to me 😀 thanks for that.

Was wondering about the pitch of your voice

If people interrupt me I pause, make eye contact then continue in a slightly lower register. Although, come to think of it, it's often me interrupting. #workingonit

I like directness as you know where you stand.