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Why do schools not read anything bloody cheerful ?

139 replies

Howlongtillbedtime · 23/09/2019 19:56

I really think teens would be engaged with reading a wee bit more if they ever read a positive book.....

So far my son has read
Holes

Maggot moon
Of mice and men
Never let me go
Jekyll and hyde

And that is without the poetry and the Shakespeare.

Where is the uplifting or at the very least slightly bloody cheerful stuff?

Both my boys struggle with English which may cloud my judgement but surely we can have something a little more sodding positive !!!

OP posts:
MrsLeclerc · 24/09/2019 19:14

@Zaphodsotherhead That must be frustrating.
You have my full admiration for adding a bit more happiness to the world Grin

LolaSmiles · 24/09/2019 19:28

Night by Elie Wiesel
That's heavy going on a y10/11 reading list!

I've used an extract of it with a really able group of Y11s but otherwise have left it til A Level. That's a haunting book.

It's an interesting reading list. What spec are they doing for those to be set texts?

OMG
I go through phases with Of Mice and Men. At the moment I'm really bored of it.

I'd love to do Day of the Triffids in full. I've used extracts with GCSE. The Hobbit is good with y7/8 too.

tierraJ · 24/09/2019 20:46

I had to suffer through Thomas Hardy's Jude the Obscure.
Possibly the most frustrating characters in a book ever.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

LolaSmiles · 24/09/2019 20:49

Thomas Hardy nearly put me off English for life. I'm not sure I could bring myself to teach him to students.

HopeClearwater · 24/09/2019 20:50

@LolaSmiles I totally agree. When I started teaching it, I was surprised to see that it was also taught to KS3.

user1497207191 · 24/09/2019 20:54

My son was an avid reader until he went to secondary. It absolutely killed it for him and he's completely stopped reading now. Dull miserably books "taught" by dull miserable teachers.

LolaSmiles · 24/09/2019 20:58

HopeClearwater
Night was taught at KS3?!
Bloody hell. That's worse than Hunger Games in KS2.

I think there should be a universal principle that just because a book is for an older age and the students can decode the word, doesn't mean that it's challenging or desirable to study it at a younger age.

I feel the same when students cover former Y7/8 texts like Private Peaceful or Boy in the Striped Pyjamas in Y5/6. It's almost like some primaries think that taking texts typically at KS3 and putting them in 5/6 makes it challenging, but then I highly doubt they discuss the Holocaust in proper detail, or cover the inaccuracies in the books etc. Then we get lectured at secondary for covering texts they've already"done". I've recently had students tell me that they've "done" Macbeth or Romeo and Juliet or A Christmas Carol in KS2 now. It's almost like there's a while range of children's literature aimed at KS2, and some KS2 teachers decide they'll 'randomly' select the most popular GCSE texts. So we get parents saying "but my child did X at primary" and then I bite my tongue and very politely point out they may have some familiarity with basic plot, but it's highly unlikely your 9 year old studied the representations of sexual and erotic love Vs courtly love or aggressive masculinity and violence in Romeo and Juliet so kindly let me teach the GCSE course.

PhilomenaButterfly · 24/09/2019 21:11

Okay Lola, most of your list is depressing. I love Shakespeare, but I prefer the comedies. We were given Henry V for Eng. Lit., which was turgid.

LolaSmiles · 24/09/2019 21:23

I wouldn't say it is. There's a range of genres (myths, murder mysteries, tragedies, comedies, dystopian), there's a range of themes (childhood to gothic and so on), there's a range of creative writing opportunities, loads of scope for Non-Fiction.

The issue with Shakespeare comedies is that quite often the students don't actually find the comedy in it and then teaching it becomes tedious. Midsummer Night's dream works well and with a good group Taming of the Shrew or Twelfth Night can work, but they tend not to flown logically when you're planning coverage year to year.
Whereas you teach something like Romeo and Juliet or Macbeth and the students really engage with the big themes and ideas and the plot. It's not a case of trudging through deaths and dwelling on deaths; they're not the main focus.
It's amusing enough having to teach some of the sexual innuendo in Romeo and Juliet to Y10 because they've missed it. Once taught it they get it but it's not what they would find funny.

What I can't seem to get is the idea that any literature that isn't happy ever after or a comedy is somehow this dull and depressing march to trudge through where all everyone does for 5 years is talk about death (when seemingly lots of people have acknowledged that there's lots of interesting themes that aren't depressing and death based in the texts).

We do the power and conflict cluster for GCSE Poetry. I don't like all of them, but some of it covers war and battles and loss but others cover a mother's nostalgia for her son, the need to question who writes history, the power of identity, political power, power in the natural world. I'm sure someone could say "yeah but blake menioned someone deaths so London is depressing" but then that's poor teaching when the poem is so much more than that.

Howlongtillbedtime · 25/09/2019 08:31

Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond to this.
I do still think it is an issue that nearly all of the books that are studied in secondary are on the grim side , however it has been interesting to see it from your side @lolasmiles . If nothing else your passion for your subject is clear to see and that can only be a good thing.
However I still stand by what I said originally , I would love to see an uplifting novel in their somewhere.
I agree that when looked into in depth these books can be interesting and challenging to the students who are able to access them. Not all students are able to do this and are left with just the basic feeling of sadness which I dont think is healthy.

OP posts:
JamieVardysHavingAParty · 25/09/2019 09:20

I think you have a point.

However, I can't come up with any suggestions what could be used instead. Ultimately, schools need books that have themes complex enough to stimulate thoughts and accessible enough that all the students can produce some coursework explaining their thoughts. Humour is incredibly subjective and draws so much on your prior cultural experiences of life and of humour, especially beyond entry levels like slapstick, but many books excel at describing grief and making you feel it, even if you're a reader who hasn't experienced grief personally.

For example, I love Cold Comfort Farm, but the humour only truly works if you're acquainted with the genre she was parodying. You'd have to get the class fully au fait with those first!

So what is out there that
a) could be stimulating work for a whole year group without being impossible for those who haven't excelled in the subject previously,
b) addresses a wide enough range of themes for some kids to get A* essays out of,
c) and doesn't rely too much on the reader having a particular cultural background?

Witchend · 25/09/2019 09:48

I think saying they/their child loved reading until the books they read at secondary killed the love are not really thinking that through. How many books do you read a year at school. Five perhaps? Probably less.
I'm an avid reader. Always have been. But five books in a year would have been considerably less than 10% of the books I read in a year.

Surely if you have a book to read at school that you don't like, which I certainly did at times, then you read that at school, and choose to read something you like at home. I found those I didn't like reading at school, well, I never read them again once we'd finished.
Those I did like, I went and bought and have reread them many times. At times the books I read at school opened me up to a whole different set of books that I wouldn't have thought of reading by myself.

And ds loved Holes so much he went out to buy it half way through because he couldn't wait to find out the end of the book. DD2, who is very sensitive over stories (couldn't get her reading famous Five when she was smaller because they were too scary) is loving Macbeth and has asked to go and see it, and dd1loved Blood Brothers, which I didn't.
All things they would never had read for themselves, but read at school.
Ds found the talking animal/fairy books far more off-putting to reading enjoyment than several of the ones mentioned here.

LolaSmiles · 25/09/2019 10:24

Witchend
The read loads until secondary is common. I'm not convinced that shift is because in one subject for 3-4 hours a week they study texts that aren't perfectly what they'd read for pleasure.
Primary reading is done very differently. Equally, more parents read with their child in primary (either because they see it as a thing to do with your child or because the school has reading records etc). By secondary very few parents read with their child.

Equally, how many parents who wish their child read more sit down on an evening and read a book? Talk to their children about books? Take them to the library? Ask them what they'd like to read? I'm sure some on this thread will, but it's not the norm.

On parents evening we get loads of parents saying "I wish they'd read more... How do I get them to read more... It's like they've suddenly turned into a pre teen and are more concerned with social media, their phone, console etc than reading".

The purpose of English lessons isn't just to read books that might be fun and that students would probably read anyway.

JamieVardysHavingAParty I agree with you. Teaching comedy when getting the comedy requires a whole wider set of knowledge and experience is really dull.

The other thing is that it's exposing students to books and styles they wouldn't normally consider. I have a love-hate relationship with Of Mice and Men but year on year students love it.
Personally, I wouldn't want to teach Harry Potter because whilst there's some interesting ideas, there's a lot to be said for letting children have their literature for their own pleasure and enjoyment rather than pulling it apart for language analysis.

Howlongtillbedtime
Thank you. Book choices is a bit of a personal interest of mine. I probably need to get out a bit more. Smile
Honestly, I do see what you mean about some different themes, but when you're probably studying 1 novel a year, 2 max to cover poetry, plays, non fiction, speaking and listening, creative writing, grammar etc that's not really a huge amount of time to cover everything. So a class novel night be sad, but then the poetry could be poetry about place, or love poetry. I'm yet to have worked in, or with, any English department who do nothing but depressing death themes lesson after lesson. They may exist, but usually texts are chosen for their complexity and range of ideas and usually they are explored.

In my experience, unless there is a fundamental literacy barrier to accessing a text, most texts can be taught to most abilities and made accessible.
I really do believe that if students are having an experience of English that's an empty feeling of sadness and doing nothing but talk about deaths be suicide then that's not a text issue, it's a teaching issue.

InglouriousBasterd · 25/09/2019 10:28

Grin A level English literature-

Handmaids tale
1984
Brave New World
Poetry by Philip Larkin

Misery was strong in that class!

AuntieMarys · 25/09/2019 10:32

My favourite O level text was A Handful of Dust. My god that was dark. But also very funny.

Trewser · 25/09/2019 10:36

Well, dd3 has never willingly picked upa book in her life (despite being weirdly good at writing and reading) has now been given Woman In Black for school and cannot get enough! So I'm all about the disturbing literature at the moment!

sashh · 25/09/2019 10:39

One school I worked at had a rule that all children had to have a reading book. The first 5 mins of every lesson was a 'do now' ie something on the board they had to do in silence as soon as they got in, and this could be, 'silent reading'.

It doesn't sound like much 5 mins x 5 lessons is close to 1/2 an hour a day.

LolaSmiles · 25/09/2019 10:44

InglouriousBasterd
Other than Larkin, that sounds amazing!

Last time I taught A Level Literature we had to do pastoral literature (elements of pastoral). I really enjoyed teaching Blake, but the rest of it wasn't my cup of tea at all. Essay questions were on things about the paradise of nature.

The other option on the spec was elements of the gothic and that looked much meatier and had a fabulous range of texts.

NoTheresa · 25/09/2019 10:56

Other than Larkin? Larkin is one of the very best.

LolaSmiles · 25/09/2019 11:00

I wish I liked him, but I can't get away with him. Blush

MissCharleyP · 25/09/2019 11:45

Agree OP. At GCSE we had Romeo & Juliet (did this in year 9 to ‘get us used’ to Shakespeare, not actually on syllabus for exam) our set GCSE texts were Lord of the Flies and Macbeth. I loved Macbeth but hated LOTF, so bloody boring. Same at A Level, I took English Lit and the only texts I remember studying (I left after a year) are Othello; fine, but a bit too similar to Macbeth, a comedy would’ve been a welcome contrast. We also did The Color Purple which I found boring and depressing.

No idea why we make 14-16 year olds read ‘highbrow’ literature when the majority of us do not read this IRL. Diary of a Nobody is funny and engaging as are most of the PG Wodehouse books I’ve read. Yes, they are light compared to Austen or Hardy but a LOT more enjoyable and still have themes that can be analysed.

LolaSmiles · 25/09/2019 11:50

No idea why we make 14-16 year olds read ‘highbrow’ literature when the majority of us do not read this IRL
The academic study of literature is not the same as what people might read for pleasure in "real life".

This is what I think gets repeatedly missed.

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 25/09/2019 12:08

I have to tell you, the idea of trying to write A-grade GCSE grade analysis of Jeeves and Wooster is making me come out in a cold sweat. I'm not saying it can't be done. Indeed, I'm sure the average English literature teacher could knock it out in a lunch break.

But could their year 10 students do it as part of GCSE study? At least with Of Mice and Men, Steinbeck pretty much hits you over the head with the social issues he wants you to think about! It's basically up there with Black Beauty, in terms of narrative purpose.

Actually, being in a classroom with other kids tacking Jeeves and Wooster is bringing me out in a cold sweat. Don't get me wrong- I like Jeeves and Wooster novels, especially when I'm ill. But every other phrase is an 'of its time' idiom, abbreviated beyond reasonableness.

Trewser · 25/09/2019 12:10

I cant think of anything more guaranteed to put todays teens off reading (jeeves and Wooster)

JamieVardysHavingAParty · 25/09/2019 12:13

Or they'll be taking out subscriptions to the Morning Star... Grin