So worried about DS 4 who’s just started school.

[lyd4165]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has any tips or advice or has actually just been in a similar scenario to us for support. My DS who was 4 in June has just started reception class last week and we are having real problems with him having accidents. So as not to drip feed this is not a new problem. We first tried toilet training at 2.5 and gave up after a week as he wasn’t happy or making progress. Left it a full year before trying again last Christmas. He caught on really quickly with wees and was accident free within 3 days however it took him months to use the toilet for poos. So far nothing really out of the ordinary I know. However the problem we have is that although he is now 100% reliable for poos at home and has been for around 6 months we cannot get him to go for a poo at school. Once again this did not surprise me. DS has been a regular paid for nursery goer from age 2, going 8-5 Monday and Tuesday where without fail each day he would poo in his pants without even attempting to get someone’s attention/ go to the toilet. He has also gone to the schools pre school the other 3 days of the week for a year and just completely avoided having to poo at school because he finished at 11:50am. However now he’s there all day we have had poo accidents on 4 days out of the 6 he has been and I am at a loss as to what I can do. We have tried everything we can think of charts and stickers wise, bribery and treats, positive encouragement, ignoring it etc etc etc and I am now losing sleep and incredibly worried about this. I am so upset that he might become known as the child who poos himself constantly and I’m desperate to help him but I just don’t know how. Feeling like a total failure as a mum. Any advice would be so appreciated. Currently feeling like I have the only 4.5 year old out there with this issue. Thank you for taking the time to read all this.

I have a 9yo who soils constantly, you’re definitely not on your own and it’s still early days.
Can you encourage him to go as soon as he wakes up?
What support have school put in place?
Can he verbalise why he doesn’t go at school?

Does he realise he has to ask the teacher to go to the toilet? When my child started Reception half the class came out with crossed legs because the teacher hadn't told them all they needed to do was ask.

Go to gp and they will check there is no physical reason he's having accidents. Just check feeling in legs, nothing tricky. They'll maybe feel his tummy too. Then they may prescribe lactulose to 'clear him out' . If he is constantly holding it in he's probably got a bit constipated but they can only hold for so long and that's when an accident happens. Then I would say get him sitting on the toilet at home at a time he can relax and no time pressures so maybe evening after dinner. Read him a favourite book or give him iPad just for this time so there is an incentive to go and sit at this time. That way hopefully he'll go once a day and not need at school. You are not a failure. It is so hard. I am still struggling with this so definitely don't have all the answers but that's what has given us some success. Opening a friendly conversation about 'ive notices you had a few accidents at school is, I wonder what's up? Is there anything I can help you to make it easier?' You might need to ask a few times but leave it if he's upset/ doesn't answer and try again another time. Good luck

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply. It means so much. To answer the questions. School are not being particularly helpful maybe because they see this as a new issue as he has only just started full days last week. I’m going to parents evening this afternoon to speak to his teacher specifically about this as I just feel there’s not much I can do from home when the problem is limited entirely to school time. Although I desperately wish there was. 9 years old. Crikey that must be so hard for you all. How do you manage the endless washing it creates?

I don’t know whether he can’t or won’t tell me what the problem is or whether he even knows what the issue is himself. Every time I ask him casually about why he had an accident rather than go to the loo I just get shrugs or he says he doesn’t know.

He knows he can ask the teacher or teaching assistant if he needs to go and he’s also said he doesn’t need their help to go so I told him well that’s fine but just make sure you get yourself there in time when you need to go. I just cannot get to the bottom of what the issue is with going at school compared to at home where he doesn’t even inform me he’s going. He just goes and gets on with it. I thought maybe he prefers no fuss or people around him when he needs to go so I told school this and they said that’s fine he can go on his own if he likes but he is still not going no matter what they try.

He has been under the care of the GP and our HV since this first started nearly a year ago and all physical issues have been ruled out. Our HV has been great but she’s out of ideas and wants to refer him to continence specialists.

We try every day to get him to go before school but he’s very strong willed and will clearly tell me that he doesn’t need to go so won’t try.

I am guessing like many of us adults , he only likes to poo in his own loo, and he isn't old enough to put it off until he gets home, not that we should anyway . Small children are often expected to go in a small window of break time with everybody else , but the urge to go isn't quite so obliging. Perhaps the teacher will understand and let him say a special word and allow him to go when it's quieter.

Good advice from @Fivechatchacha. Sitting him on the loo with a book is a good idea.

My DS was very anxious about going for a poo at school. He wouldn't talk to me about it and so i understand how worrying it is. Then i worked it out. He just didn't want to wipe himself or ask the teacher to do it so he'd physically hold it in until he got home. He gets alot of constipation as he's awful with fruit & veg. So he can go days without a poo and i resort to Lactulose. We seem to have a breakthrough in that he's told me he's actually had a poo at school and wiped too! He's 5.5 now and just started year 1. I know it's the opposite to your DS in that he is soiling himself. I just wanted to say it's good there's nothing wrong medically and so i think it will happen in time for him. Poos are always seem to take longer to get to grips with than wees! You're doing great as you're not making a big thing of it in front of him. Good luck x

My DD was exactly the same when she started school, her reason for it was that she was outside playing, or was doing something she didnt want to miss. We didnt punish her, just told her everytime that she was big enough to get herself to the toilet, and she must. It took about 6 weeks but it stopped eventually!

I think that is a good chunk of the problem. Because he won’t give me so much as a clue or hint of what the problem is I just don’t know what to do or say to the teachers to tackle it and I’m not there to see what’s happening or what they are doing. If he would give me an idea of what his issue is with going at school I could try and find a way to help him and so could the teachers but this dismissive shrugging gives me nothing to go on whatsoever. I’m so worried he’ll get picked on if we don’t try and find the solution but I’m just lost as to what to try. It’s such a horrible predicament.

Firstly don't feel bad. Schools will have seen it all before and more so be reassured there.

You're right to have a chat with his teacher about it. They may not be concerned because accidents at school are not uncommon in the early days (according to my friends in EYFS) and it may be that we he settles that his toileting settles too.

Could you ask that the TA takes him out of class at an appropriate moment and specifically asks him to try for a poo/reminds him that he can go if he needs to?

You're right to chat with the teacher. Is there a school nurse? I think I'd also go and have a chat with him/her, as they may have seen this before and have some strategies you could try. I can understand how worried you are as we had an issue with severe constipation just before DS1 started school and that was very stressful too.

There isn’t a school nurse that I know of. The school is quite small with not many children in each year. I think you’re all right though. The way forward is to speak to his teacher and go from there. Find out what’s happening while he’s there and what they’re saying to him/trying with him. Fingers crossed for some joy at parents evening this aft. It’s just so hard not being able to help him with this issue. It’s causing such stress and worry which is getting increasingly hard to hide from him at the moment when we’re all trying to settle into the new routine of school runs etc. I also have a 16 month old and work to juggle as well as being 6 months pregnant so finding time to deal with the washing, the school, talk to him about what’s the matter all the while worrying myself silly is getting so exhausting.

Solidarity from us. DD is in Y1 and still not dry.
I would see the HV and find out if he's constipated, even if poo seems runny it is very common.
We get DD to sit on the toilet and try for a poo after breakfast and tea, and don't take no for an answer (and make him try for a second one!)

DS was in pull ups still at the beginning of Reception aged nearly 5 (he is delayed in development and has autism). He is now fully trained in Year 1. The TA took him/reminded him to go to the toilet every 1-2 hours and we were advised by a specialist health visitor to sit him on the toilet 15-20 minutes after eating meals to try and take advantage of the gastro-colic reflex which makes it more likely for a bowel movement to happen at that time. My dd needed reminders because it was easy for him to leave it until it was too late when playing. You can get special watches that give your child regular reminders at set times that might help.

www.eric.org.uk/pages/shop/department/vibrating-watches?dept=vibrating-watches. The ERIC website is also good for advice.

Could you go into school at pick up time and take him into the loos so he gets used to the space and they feel more comfortable and familiar. Maybe wait a few minutes for the after school hustle to die down. Do it every day for a few weeks. Could you get him to just wash his hands then build up to sitting on the loo while you wait for him- even if he doesn't need to go.
I don't think school loos are relaxing places. Worried someone might barge in or look over the top of the door ..., I didn't go to the loo for the entire Year 3- someone said The Grey Lady was in there, and I genuinely didn't dare go in for a year.

Hi, thank you for all the helpful tips. He is very used to the school loos and has no problems using them for wees and going in for hand wash time before dinner etc. His teacher told me today that he asked to go to the loo mid way through his lunch today for a wee. So why on Earth he feels he can’t do the same for a poo I do not know. :(. I’m really hoping he might start trying once he settles into school a bit more

Also I should say we didn't call it going to the toilet for a poo (ds had an aversion to pooing on the toilet). Instead we rewarded him for sitting, increasing the time from 5-15/20 minutes around 15-20 minutes after eating. School also did this and he got praise for completing the sitting time. Might take the pressure off for him to not associate it with pooing. It did take a while though (not least because ds tends to fully undress to poo at home if left unattended, school had to convince him he didn't have to in order to be comfortable!). It also might help him stay there long enough to feel the sensations that tell him.he needs to go, there is a tendency for them to leap up to rush back to play, lest they miss out on something.

DD is certainly in the FOMO group. That's why once she's done a poo we tell her to try for another.