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About Brexit: Dear young people ...

87 replies

ScreamingLadySutch · 18/09/2019 10:39

Far from ruining your future, Brexit is helping to secure it.

The Eurozone has a structurally high unemployment rate amongst young workers they either cannot, or will not, solve.

The UK has the lowest unemployment rate in the EU. Why? The cost of EU regulations do not apply here. After Brexit, EU costs on the economy will be even less.

When Remainers who were courting the young vote in 2016 with all the EU opportunities, now talk about Leave 'untruths', they failed to mention (even in the Remainer government leaflets at the time) there WAS a EU youth unemployment/employment problem - never mind the extent.

This FT article back then explains the inherent young worker problems in the EU/Eurozone;

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b2171222-31e4-11e5-8873-775ba7c2ea3d.html

”They call it the “precariat”. In a continent known for strong employee protections, more than half of the eurozone’s young workers are in temporary jobs, churning from one short lived contract to the next.”

”In France, permanent jobs account for just 16% of new contracts, down from a quarter in 2000. In Spain, almost seven in 10 young workers are on temporary contracts. The share of the eurozone’s 15 to 24-year-old workers who are temps is the highest on record, at 52.4%”

”A deep fracture has emerged in Spain, France, Italy and Portugal over the past 20 years, with an older generation of highly protected permanent employees on one side and a younger generation forced to settle for insecure jobs on the other. That is one reason why youth unemployment surged when the crisis hit.”

“The rules for open-ended contracts in Europe are considered too stringent by employers and they sidestep those regulations by creating non-regular jobs"

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BackToTheOIdHouse · 20/09/2019 06:52

It's funny because DD is 22 and even though Brexit hasn't happened yet it's affecting her negatively.

Some of the best lecturers at her university have gone back to their countries of origin within the EU because of the uncertainty. The line of work she will have studied for five years to be qualified to work in will be seriously affected by her inability to move freely within the EU.

As a side note, the several medications she takes daily to manage a chronic condition are on the lists of meds likely to be in short supply after Brexit.

Never mind OP, I'll show her your post and I'm sure she'll feel better Smile

BackToTheOIdHouse · 20/09/2019 06:54

I put my faith in these experts over the lefty biased media any day

The three biggest selling newspapers in the UK are The Daily Mail, The Sun and The Express. Hardly a leftyfest.

ContinuityError · 20/09/2019 09:38

We trade more with the USA that Europe already, what is this Remain obsession?

Really?

^In 2018 the EU accounted for 46% of UK exports and 54% imports.
Looking at individual countries, the the USA is the UK largest trading partner, accounting for just under a fifth of UK exports and just over 10% of imports in 2018.^

About Brexit:  Dear young people ...
ScreamingLadySutch · 20/09/2019 11:05

Fraser Nelson article: The former PM expected diplomacy from the EU but found a bureaucratic Death Star incapable of reform
If you voted for Brexit, your optimism might be wavering right now. I can propose just the remedy: David Cameron’s memoir. It is, unintentionally, the most convincing case for Brexit that you will ever read.
For The Record was written as political tragedy, a 700-page apology to the nation for the former prime minister’s role in what he regards as a calamity.
But it’s also a candid account of how he pursued an idea – that the EU can be reformed – and tested it to (his) destruction. We see him making allies, drafting strategies, threatening and begging – but his story ends in failure. He expected diplomacy, but encountered a bureaucratic Death Star whose hunger for power is matched only by its intransigence. From the former Remainer-in-Chief, it’s quite a story.
Cameron started out a Eurosceptic, but one who thought that the irritations of the EU were a price worth paying for the general aims of solidarity and free trade. In opposition, he mocked politicians who “bang on about Europe” but in No 10 he soon found out why they did.
Once inside its inner circle, he was exposed to the horrors. The directives, the stitch-ups, the knives always out for the City of London. He found Silvio Berlusconi advising a table of EU leaders to take a mistress in Brussels, because it was the only way to survive the late-night summits. The purpose of these meetings, he discovered, was to grind everyone into submission. Including, eventually, him.
He found the EU to be “peacenik” on security, unable to respond to threats on its doorstep. He vetoed one of the eurozone bailout packages that threatened to suck in Britain, only to see the rules changed so the UK veto would not count. When the UK tried to go its own way, it “wasn’t simply a disagreement with the others, it was a heresy against the scripture”. He thought Angela Merkel nice, but unreliable. He refers to the “half-life of a Merkel promise”: the time taken between her making one and breaking it. In general, he found “Germany’s unfailing ability to get what it wants in the end.”
Britain’s ability to get what it wants was, by contrast, pretty minimal. When the federalist Jean-Claude Juncker was put forward as European Commission president, Cameron was shocked to discover that just two of the 28 EU member states’ leaders wanted him.
There is a touch of Mr Smith Goes to Washington about what happened next: why, he asks then, go along with this stitch-up? He stays up late drinking wine with fellow leaders, and they promise to back him in stopping Juncker. Then Merkel decides it’s not worth the fight, so they all support a massive decision that they all know to be wrong.
Cameron goes home appalled. But as he was to find out, this is how things work. “‘Anyone who says that the EU is an organisation based on law and not politics has never seen it act under pressure,” he records. “Whenever there was pressure to transfer powers to Brussels, the lawyers always found a way, but when I wanted to take powers back, those same lawyers always opposed it.” It is a formula to trap democracies: use complex laws and regulation to suck powers in, but never give them back.
So Brexit wasn’t – as is so often argued – about appeasing Tory backbenchers. In fact, Cameron rightly points out that it’s no bad thing. MPs meet constituents every week, and if the public mood changes (for example, more people thinking that EU membership has become intolerable) this gets fed back to the prime minister through the MPs. This is how a parliamentary democracy is supposed to work. His book shows him seeking to explain this, to an often baffled EU. So the renegotiation failed.
So many of the disputes come from a basic difference in understanding. “Merkel and others just didn’t see free movement as immigration,” he admits. “If you’re from outside the EU, you’re a migrant.” So how was he going to negotiate a solution, if his counterparts could not understand the problem?
Dealing with their officials, he says, was even worse. “To them, I was a dangerous heretic stamping on their sacred texts.” He records with amazement how the Germans (and others) saw the EU as the fount of democracy, where Brits only ever wanted a forum for economic co-operation.
Had these been the memoirs of Nigel Farage, we might suspect that the author didn’t try too hard to win others around. But Cameron tried (and gave) everything. He once invited me to a dinner where he was talking tactics with Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister, about the urgent need to reform. In the book, he records how even Rutte abandoned him over Juncker’s appointment. But you can see why. Who wants to fight with the mighty EU? Cameron never quite explains why, after so many losses, he thought he might win.
Or why he backed Remain. There is almost nothing in those 700 pages to explain why EU membership is a good thing. There is not a single example of anything emanating from Brussels that benefits Britain. So why does he start to talk about Britain’s future being in the EU and about it being a fundamental part of who we are as a country?
He doesn’t offer a proper explanation himself. Perhaps his close friendship with George Osborne, an avid Remainer, swung him – in the way he thinks his friendship with Michael Gove and Boris Johnson ought to have swung them. It’s pretty hard to reconcile the calm, rational, patient author of the first 40 chapters of the book with that of the final seven chapters who talks about Brexiteers as careerists, villains and Islamophobes.
But the great value of Cameron’s book is its candour. He recorded his thoughts once a month, wrote each chapter from the perspective of what he felt at the time, and has not twisted the facts to suit his final conclusion. He regards Brexit as a disaster, but those who read his book would be tempted to see it as liberation. A great democracy was being squeezed inside an unaccountable bureaucracy, and no one else in Europe wanted to risk their career by challenging it – or giving voters the chance to escape it. But Cameron did. He might, one day, come to see it as the greatest single service he did his country.

OP posts:
ScreamingLadySutch · 20/09/2019 11:09

"David Cameron has unwittingly written the best ever case for Brexit
FRASER NELSON" - Daily Telegraph.

For people who do not know how to debate properly, DO NOT use 'its the Telegraph, I pronounce them fascist, therefore evil, so we don't have to pay attention' logical fallacy.

Instead, you use the points given (the mendacity of the EU, the hopelessness of engaging with it, the EU suits Germany) and counter argue about how this doesn't matter in the face of its benefits.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 20/09/2019 11:30

Dear dd , I'm sorry if you are forced to read tedious long articles about Brexit.
Hopefully we will avoid no Deal and we'll protect GFA. I don't give a shit about the rest.

StealthPolarBear · 20/09/2019 11:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BrexitBingoGenerator · 20/09/2019 11:40

Going back to your original point though OP, how will brexit affect youth unemployment in this country? Just because there are high levels of youth unemployment in some eurozone countries, are you saying that brexit will inoculate us against this?

StealthPolarBear · 20/09/2019 11:44

These are the people who have in their manic festo that in light of austerity, they will cut letters from the alphabet, starting with 'n', 'h' and 's' :o

ScreamingLadySutch · 20/09/2019 12:01

Without us the EU is probably not solvent
It will fail.
Political top down structures distort markets.
It is a failed organisation with an economic model that does not work.
It is an outdated 1950/60 economic model.
It does not compete with the rest of the world

Brexit is a logical, rational response.

OP posts:
ScreamingLadySutch · 20/09/2019 12:05

@StealthPolarBear neither interested nor moved by ad hominem illogical slurs.

"Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"),[1] short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2] "

Notice AVOIDING the argument? Why are you avoiding the points being made?

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 20/09/2019 12:12

Sorry for spoiling your fun, op. If you can protect the GFA and avoid No Deal, I don't care.

StealthPolarBear · 20/09/2019 12:13

Eh? Your name is screaming lady sutch

StealthPolarBear · 20/09/2019 12:13

But thanks for tge little lesson anyway

ImNotYourGranny · 20/09/2019 12:25

My DD is a young person and brexit is seriously fucking over her future. She's an English teacher in another EU country. She may not have her contract renewed post brexit as policy is that they have to employ EU citizens. She won't be able to return to the UK and teach as the UK won't recognise foreign qualifications.

But that might all be moot as she doesn't even know if she'll be alive. She's currently in hospital being treated for a serious life threatening condition (been there since February). Her treatment is currently free as she's an EU citizen. She won't be able to pay for it. She won't get insurance as the condition already exists. She won't be allowed treatment in the UK as she's not habitually resident.

So you can stick your empty platitudes up your arse. Brexit could well mean that my daughter has no future at all.

BrexitBingoGenerator · 20/09/2019 13:05

How do you feel about the EU failing OP? What do you expect the fallout from that to be like? We will be affected still, but how?

ScreamingLadySutch · 20/09/2019 18:24

@BrexitBingoGenerator "when the pain of changing is smaller than the pain of staying the same, [people] change"

Same for the EU.

OP posts:
ScreamingLadySutch · 20/09/2019 18:24

Ben Habib:

The only weapon in the Remain camp’s armoury was Project Fear.

It was first launched to suggest that a simple vote to leave the EU would result in an instant deep recession with the loss of a million jobs and potentially a run on the banks. Well, that theory was virtually instantly debunked. The UK ended 2016 as the fastest growing economy in the G7.

Since then the UK economy has gone from strength to strength. Far from a million jobs being lost, a million jobs have been created. Unemployment is at an all-time low and wage growth has finally begun to establish itself.

The mantra then shifted to: “well we have not yet left the EU and, once we do, there will be a deep protracted recession”. The wheels on that claim came off on 21 January this year when the FT (a bastion of Remain) admitted that mainstream economic forecasters were no longer predicting a recession in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Sufficient government and EU planning had already been done, by that stage, in order to avoid it. In fact, as we now know, our government had done precious little no-deal planning – Hammond had refused to allow it to do so – seems to me that a deep Brexit-induced recession was never on the cards.

The next nail in the coffin for Project Fear came in March when Mark Carney declared that the financial services sector was ready for no-deal. To the extent that subsidiaries of financial institutions had to be set up on the mainland and jobs moved, this had already taken place. The cost in terms of jobs to achieve this feat: a total of 1,500, as compared to the 75,000 job losses predicted in 2016. Services accounts for some 70 per cent of the UK’s GDP and the financial sector is a large component of this. Bang went a crucial leg of Project Fear. And, in case Remainers have not noticed, the financial services sector is performing pretty damn well right now.

The next port of call for Project Fear was, yes you guessed it, our ports. Theory had it that they would be so snarled up that there would be a lettuce crisis in the UK. It must be so annoying that both Douglas Bannister, CEO of the port of Dover and Jean-Marc Puissesseau, President of the combined ports of Calais and Boulogne, have declared that their ports can cope with any disruption thrown up by a no-deal Brexit. Indeed Mr Puissesseau described scaremongering over disruption as “La Bullsh**”. A hammer blow for Yellowhammer.

So where is Project Fear currently resting? Its suggestion now is that the UK will grow more slowly than it otherwise would, by up to 0.5 per cent of GDP per annum and that an additional £30 billion per annum in government debt would be wracked up. Forgive me if I do not instantly panic!

Here’s the problem with Project Fear: it is groundless. Its evidence, to the extent it has any, is formed in economic forecasts based on using the status quo as a starting point and then removing those elements of trade that depend on the Single Market without making any allowance for additional government preparations, government spending, monetary responses, the huge advantage of a floating currency and, last but not least, the extremely adaptive nature of UK businesses.

Businesses will not sit idly by while the trading and regulatory environment changes. Businesses adapt very quickly. Indeed, times of change can be exceptionally good for business, encouraging them, as it does, to reinvent themselves and modernise. It is also important to bear in mind that the vast majority of businesses in the UK are SMEs and do not export goods. In fact, only 12 per cent of the UK’s GDP depends on any form of trade with the EU. The case for Project Fear was always overblown.

To win the economic argument, Remainers really had to make the case for a bright EU-led prosperous future. They could not do so because the EU, particularly the Eurozone, is sick, very sick. Interest rates have been in negative territory virtually since the onset of the credit crunch. There is high unemployment (particularly amongst the youth), a number of Eurozone countries are virtually bust, including France and Italy amongst them. The Euro has these countries locked in a death embrace. And the largest economy in Europe, Germany, is all but in recession.

In invoking Hilaire Belloc’s Jim: “…always keep a-hold of nurse, for fear of finding something worse..”; nurse at least had to be benign but the EU nurse is sclerotic and covered in warts. She is now tending to Project Fear on its deathbed.

OP posts:
bellinisurge · 20/09/2019 18:30

Again, more boring articles that I don't want to bother reading. You obviously love clever boys.

Cittadina · 20/09/2019 18:33

@ScreamingLadySutchScreamingLadySutch

Dream on, 'love'.

mybigbotty · 20/09/2019 18:55

op, im with you. It seems that most are unaware that the burst financial bubble of 2008 has been reinflated and is growing at ever increasing proportions. qe increases the value of assets, the eu is restarting qe in november.

I voted out, although it was in my personal interests to remain. If we are not out of the eu on 31 october my plan is to vote in the next general election using the same sense of logic that those who voted remain used, choosing the outcome that would be best for them. So I will vote for Corbyn as labour will redistribute the wealth. That will be best for my investments and future.

BogglesGoggles · 20/09/2019 19:00

I come from a city with higher than ideal unemployment rates (not in the EU). Very glad I’m building a career in Britain, so many opportunities. Not clear whether that will still be the case post brexit though...

BogglesGoggles · 20/09/2019 19:02

@mybigbotty do reconsider. We will be leaving with our wealth (as would most who have it) in the event it were to be ‘redistributed’.

mybigbotty · 20/09/2019 19:41

BogglesGoggles that is of course your choice. If you can get it out of the country in time and find a decent exchange rate. I was under the impression that those with wealth had already moved it. If the democratic vote is ignored, then surely its every man for himself?

ListeningQuietly · 20/09/2019 19:42

Italy's youth unemployment is DESPITE the EU, not because of it.
The EU has been nagging the Italian Government to sort its employment rules for decades.
But because EU countries are sovereign , the Italians have kept their mess

Greece also refuses to deal with its structural employment problems despite the EU

so what exactly have the internal policies of those two countries got to do with young people in the UK ?