Downton Abbey is not a documentary, but ...

[HerculesTheBercules]

I saw this at the cinema last night and loved it. Total feel good suspend your belief nonsense of course, but it got me thinking.

Those “upstairs” spent a lot of time together, were fully immersed in each other’s lives and spent their leisure time (ha!) together, way more than modern generations do.

Those ‘downstairs’ if we forget the poor pay and long hours etc, also seem to revel in each other’s company, and seem more satisfied with their lot.

Made up film nonsense, or with our busy lives have we lost the art of living in the moment.

Love the movie, very funny, but...

What jumped out at me was how Daisy was in an abusive, jealous and controlling relationship and how Andy's behaviour was narrated as "romantic".

She won't be happy with her lot.

I can't wait to see it, what you have both said is so intriguing.

I thought the plumber a dish, shame we didn't have him stripped to the waist with the dirty work he was undertaking.

@PicsInRed

I don't agree with that. Andy showed no signs of that in the show and in the movie, he's clearly been waiting all those years in between for her to set the date of the wedding. And he wasn't pushy, he asked about it. And he didn't push her when she said to wait.
Then he saw her making eyes at the plumber and got upset. I think with her stringing him along, its understandable. He took his anger out on the boiler, which wasnt good but we all get angry. He told her at the end, but apologised and realised what he'd done. I don't think he'd have shown any sort of jealousy if she'd been honest with him one way or the other. Either she wants to marry him or not, but stringing him along and flirting with the plumber infront of him made him snap.
He was a gentlemen in the series when she rejected his advances.

The plumber is PC Harrison Burns from The Archers!

Oh no @Paddington68, you've ruined it for me now!

Thought they made an idiot out of Mr Molesley.

I agree. Previous generations spent a lot more time together, as they didn’t have so much access to cheap travel, telephones, etc. It’d bound to have made them happier. Humans are tribal, social creatures. We need other people.

The plumber flirted with Daisy and she good naturally put up with it and laughed along (what else was she going to do at work). She's already dating Andy, just hasn't agreed to marry yet, as us her choice. Andy was angry that the plumber was interested in Daisy and responded by taking a shovel and smashing part of the boiler and was quite sulky towards Daisy IIRC. He said it was because he just felt so strongly about her and that made him really angry. His actions, if discovered, could cause him to be fired with no reference, no small thing in 1930ish, for a dependent wife and children. Red flags abound for Daisy.

IIRC he was sulky and mean spirited (e.g. laughed at her hair) when she rejected his advances.

@PicsInRed

She had agreed to marry him. He was asking if she'd picked a date yet. As was Mrs Pattmore. She wouldn't set one. Bit had agreed to marry him. Either marry him or don't, but don't say yes and then strong him along.

Can you see the film if you haven't watched any of the series?

I'd say yes, it'd would be easy enough to follow without watching the TV version, although I have seen all the series. If you watched the first episode of the first series before you went or read the summary on Wikipedia it might help though as it introduces all the main characters and then you know the background a bit.

I didn't like what they did to Molesley or Andy either. I hoped Daisy would LTB after that.

I think it depends how well you get on with your family/colleagues! I always remember thinking that if I lived with my sister full time as adults, having every meal together, no job to escape to, we would be irritating each other as much as Mary and Edith! It makes sense to me that they get on better now they have more separate lives and live miles apart.

You've also got to bear in mind how little both upstairs and downstairs see of their children - the upstairs lot pretty much have them brought in for an hour a day and then back to nanny, and there was a scene early on in the film where Anna and mr bates discuss which one of them was going to get their son from the nursery to bring him home, very late in the night.

"Those “upstairs” spent a lot of time together, were fully immersed in each other’s lives and spent their leisure time (ha!) together, way more than modern generations do."
Sounds like you missed the backstory (6 seasons of television series) where the two upstairs sisters hated each other and spent the best part of their time trying to sabotage each other's lives, where the mother and the grandmother were at loggerheads and at times weren't speaking to each other (including Dowager going off to France so she wouldn't have to see the Countess), where the Earl lost his wife's entire inheritance because it wouldn't occur to him to ask a woman about financial management and refused to attend his daughter's wedding because she married beneath her, and Lady Edith's engagement was broken off because Lady Mary spitefully spilled the beans about her illegitimate child.

I seem to have far more happy interactions with my family in the 2010s.

Get treated better by my work colleagues, too, than William did by Thomas in the first series, Daisy by Mrs Patmore in the first series, Miss Baxter by Thomas in series 4-5 (until she saved his life), and Thomas by Mr Carson in series 6. Oh, and Miss Baxter by the Bateses (whose lives she saves). What Fellowes does actually bring out very well in the TV series is the petty bickering that that kind of life leads to. If my colleagues annoy me, I still get to go home at the end of the day. They couldn't.

Haven't seen the film yet, but it does seem a lot fluffier than the TV show. Hearing a lot of people saying the gay club is anachronistic, but I don't think it is: I have colleagues who research queer history, and that bit seems quite plausible. What was never plausible, of course, was that Edith could not only bring up her illegitimate child, but actually inherit a whole newspaper and a flat from a man who was not married or related to her, and who was actually married at the time, then produce a child shortly afterwards and there was no scandal, no news sheets interested, no talk, no cold shouldering, no one to speak up for the poor wife.

Previous generations spent a lot more time together... It’d bound to have made them happier.

You don’t know my family

I thought Daisy seemed surprisingly switched on and bolshy in the film, whereas in the series she was a bit dippit.

I hope the script and storyline were better than the tv series. I saw a few when visiting my mum and the costumes/scenery were lovely, but the dialogue awful I thought.

cory - I agree re: NEVER being able to escape your workmates

I don't think having a gay club itself was anachronistic per se, but I
do think that the large number of men in the club on a random night, in a fairly small Yorkshire city was a bit unlikely, as was the fact Thomas had never heard of this underground scene despite having lived in the area and knowing he was gay for at least the last 17 years. I think it would have been a bit more realistic if he'd gone to a similar club when in London.

haha people are always inheriting large fortunes from people who aren't related to them in Downton - look at Matthew. Two major inheritances in less than three series, from a third cousin once removed, and then his ex-fiance's father. Charles Blake was set to inherit a surprise baronetcy from his childless uncle, plus Daisy set to inherit a farm from the father of her unconsummated five minute marriage to William, and now the new plotline with Imelda Staunton's character in the film. No wonder nobody batted an eyelid at Edith!

I agree about Daisy. Too forward in the film. She was a right drip in the series.

haha people are always inheriting large fortunes from people who aren't related to them in Downton - look at Matthew. Two major inheritances in less than three series, from a third cousin once removed, and then his ex-fiance's father.

exactly, he was Lord Grantham's nearest male heir, and the fiance of what's-his-name who had no living dependents or heirs

absolutely no suggestion of dodgy behaviour at all; to the contrary, nearly-father-in-law's posthumous validation of Matthew cancels out any suspicion of inappropriateness in his relationship to Lavinia

and as for the Grantham inheritance, the property was entailed: he had to inherit by law, whether the Granthams liked it or not

same with Daisy- no scandal: that was precisely why William married her, so she would be provided for in an acceptable way

Mr Blake- no scandal- money normally goes to the nearest relative

money is left to exactly the people you'd expect and not connected to any suggestion of inappropriate behaviour

Mr Gregson otoh is married, he is seen going around London with this young lady of noble birth, then he dies disinheriting his living wife (whose medical bills presumably need paying for!) to leave a bundle to his surely-everybody-knows mistress, who then appears with a mysterious child clearly conceived at the time when Mr Gregson was going around London etc. You would have to be as thick as...well, as somebody in the DA series, not to work out that they had an affair and this is their illegitimate child. Even today, if my husband died suddenly and it was discovered that he had left his money (assuming such a thing was allowed) to the pretty secretary at work- people would talk. For an Earl's daughter with the eyes of the world upon her, they were going to talk a lot. Especially as Edith makes no attempt to cover up but actually goes to live in the flat and manages the business (and does absolutely diddly squat about checking Gregson's sick wife is provided for). Remember in series 2 when Mary nearly had to marry Mr Carlyle because even the suggestion of illicit sex with an unmarried man (though not involving child or inheritance) would have ruined her.

Not sure about the gay club- is the town York? In which case, it was not that small or insignificant. Don't think a lot of research has been done on the provincial gay scene, though.