Would you like a ban on cars parking on pavements?

[StarsBright]

‘MPs call for blanket ban on car parking on pavements.’

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/car-parking-pavement-ban-britain-uk-government-a9096991.html

Having needed to use a wheelchair recently I’d really like to see a change in this behaviour. It makes it difficult to get around when cars park on the pavement without leaving enough of a gap for a wheelchair to get through. It’s also frustrating and dangerous for those with prams, the partially sighted and pedestrians.

I do understand that it’s not an easy issue to solve and some roads are very narrow, however there has already a ban in place in London for decades.

I’d be interested to hear thoughts on this!

You can send your kids to a local school that they can walk to: I’m 48, so not ancient, and very very few kids were driven to school then.

Depends on the area. In my town, there's no High School, and the nearest town with a school (failing so unpopular) is over 5 miles away - that's not a walkable distance. I'm 55, I vividly remember the queue of 10-15 double decker school buses outside the school gates at end of school, so that was a few hundred kids who weren't within walking distance, nor on a public bus route even back then! Today, there is a convoy of 11 school buses which go through our village to the High School from the city to a high school (outstanding) just over the county border - that's a 10 mile journey - again, not walkable, and no public transport, hence the convoy of school buses.

With decades of small schools being closed down and everything centralised in super-schools, usually in different towns, walking isn't an option. I suspect that most people who think life without a car is even remotely possible must live in the big cities like London that have good public transport, lots of local amenities, etc. For most areas outside the major cities, life just isn't like that.

I got the school bus to high school in the 1980s. You say that a ‘convoy’ of buses is available to take your kids to the high school. Why are they being driven instead of taking the school bus?

And I didn’t live in a big city then, incidentally. Nor do I now.

Why are they being driven instead of taking the school bus?

The school bus costs a few hundred pounds per pupil per year.

For parents with 2 or more kids at the school, or who work in that direction, they can't afford the expense.

Again, it's OK for the likes of those in London where kids get free public transport!

Well, if it would stop people parking like this twat round the corner from my friend’s house... taking up the entire pavement, on a corner, on a hill, where the street is more than wide enough for it to park in the road. Thus my friend with her pushchair and her dog is forced to step into the path of oncoming cars to get past it.

Anybody claiming that they have to have a car to take kids to school because the school bus costs a couple of hundred pounds a year needs to examine their maths skills. How much does it cost to keep a car on the road with tax, insurance, petrol, the cost of the car itself, etc?

Even if you have four kids you’d still come out well ahead financially.

Anybody claiming that they have to have a car to take kids to school because the school bus costs a couple of hundred pounds a year needs to examine their maths skills. How much does it cost to keep a car on the road with tax, insurance, petrol, the cost of the car itself, etc?

It's not "a couple of hundred pounds" - the buses I was talking about cost £150 per term, so that's £450 per pupil per year.

And the costs of the car exist anyway because the families already own the car for other reasons. The only "extra" cost is a bit of petrol.

Your thinking would only be valid if they never used the car for anything else - only then would the costs of the car itself be relevant.

So you agree that ‘I need a car to take the kids to school’ is a fallacious argument, then.

Which means that the posters bleating about ‘needing’ a car to go shopping with, or to take kids to school, this justifying blocking the pavement, don’t have a leg to stand on.

Not RTFT but yes, in general, I would like to see a ban on pavement parking. I realise there are some areas that are set up for it, or the pavements are wide and there is room for cars and people.

But just yesterday I saw an Asda van parked on the pavement delivering to a house. The house had a decent size drive and the van could have been parked there easily. Instead, it was blocking most of the pavement, I squeezed through, a wheelchair or buggy would not have done.

A lot of the time people stop on pavements on main roads when they could drive a few yards further and stop in a side road (eg to use their mobile phones or to walk round to someone's house on the main road).

Even worse is when you are walking along a pavement and someone drives onto it behind you or in front of you to park, even though they can see you.

It's a scourge and something does need to be done about it. There's a lot of angst about cyclists on pavements, but drivers are far worse.

So you agree that ‘I need a car to take the kids to school’ is a fallacious argument, then.

It wasn't me who said that.

Why are they being driven instead of taking the school bus?

We drove to primary because we didn’t get our local school.

We applied for schools meaning we could walk every day.

We got given a school 25 mins drive away. We chose a different option, with no public transport options and too far to walk.

Just to add, now at secondary she commutes the 30 mile round trip by train.

No. I don't think a blanket ban is the answer. There are lots of roads where parking is allowed but because it's narrow, winding, etc, parking two wheels on the pavement actually helps other road users.
I also think we have restrictions for unsafe parking, causing an obstruction, etc. Implement them properly. This ban is just an excuse to generate more income by circumventing the processes and laws that already exist.

No, but you have chimed in in support of people having cars to drive kids to school.

The thread is about people parking on pavements, to the inconvenience and detriment of pedestrians, people pushing buggies and wheelchair/scooter users. The reasons for that are (1) too many people living on narrow roads unsuitable for parking cars have cars and (2) many of those people selfishly prioritise parking the excessive number of cars over the needs of people using the pavement.

The ‘what about ambulances and fire engines’ argument has been shown to be nonsense (thank you @banivani for articulating this), so the people parking on pavements have resorted to ‘but I NEED a car for shopping/taking kids to school/getting to work’.

Of those, I accept the ‘getting to work’ argument IF you truly need a car, eg if you work on an otherwise inaccessible business park or driving is part of your job. I don’t believe that it is the case for most people though. I work in Manchester City centre. There are many public transport options. Many colleagues who live near stations and tram stops still drive to work. Why? They don’t need a car to get to work.

So I draw the obvious conclusion that a great many people, including those who live on roads not designed for parking at least one car for every house, are using ‘but I NEED a car’ as an excuse. They don’t need one. They just like having one and can’t be bothered using public transport.

For anyone saying, but I live in the country so I NEED a car: buy a house with parking, then. Don’t ruin things for the people living in your village who need to use the pavements.

@WonderWomansSpin the people ‘circumventing the laws that already exist’ are the people illegally parking on pavements.

No, but you have chimed in in support of people having cars to drive kids to school.

No, I've "explained" why!

We've had over 50 years where everyone (politicians, business, government, schools, NHS etc) moved towards cars. Railways and tram lines were ripped up, bus routes and timetables were scaled back, small schools, hospitals, GP surgeries etc were closed down to create fewer, larger units, businesses moved out of small towns and centralised in big cities. It was all geared around the car.

You can't just rewind history overnight. It takes time. Cars are reality in the here and now - that's due to poor governmental policy over decades. We've finally realised the past mistakes, but realistically, it's going to take decades to reverse. Until, then, multiple household cars are a reality and we have to do the best we can until "localism" gains a stronger foothold, along with public transport, to reduce the need for private cars.

And no, I'm no manic car supporter. I walk more miles in an average week than I drive. 25 years ago, I realised how stupid it was to commute an hour each way, so took a demotion and massive pay cut to get a job closer to home. Then 20 years, I started my own business and waited a few years before suitable premises became available within walking distance of home. It takes time to live and work a more sustainable life!

They just like having one and can’t be bothered using public transport.

Outside cities and large towns, public transport often isn't an option.

Even if there was a blanket ban on parking on pavements, who would police it?
People here regularly park right up to junctions, so getting out into oncoming traffic is a nightmare, and nothing is done about that. They also park on pavements, sometimes uneccessarily, across corners and driveways, but nothing is done. So making parking on pavements illegal, except where there are traffic wardens, is an empty threat.

Parking on pavements is already illegal.

Even if there was a blanket ban on parking on pavements, who would police it?

Err, the police! It's obstruction which is clearly within the role of the police. They're not shy about putting FPNs on cars that park on the grass verges around our local football stadium on match days, nor around our park on sunny weekends. If they can issue tickets for parking on grass verges, then they can issue tickets for blocking pavements. All it needs is for the worst cases to be ticketed - i.e. those completely blocking the pavement - others will see the tickets and be more mindful of making sure they don't block the pavement themselves.

The thing is, it’s easy to blame government policy for people becoming more reliant on cars (and I’m with you on the folly of ripping up railway lines and encouraging businesses to centralise in cities or on business parks: madness on the part of councils who can’t see past the business rates and would do almost anything to bring businesses to their area, rather than the remit of the neighbouring council), but ultimately nothing will change until people start to take responsibility for themselves. We know that most people won’t, so it needs to be forced to happen by regulations.

Starting with keeping the pavements clear for those who want to walk, improving public transport and introducing congestion charges to push people into using the improved public transport. It appears to have worked in London.

Even if there was a blanket ban on parking on pavements, who would police it?

Operation snap
Which is very well used presently & extremely cheap. Drivers would get fines & points in the post

Lots of people literally have no choice but to use a car to go shopping,

Yet Sainsbury are using cargo bikes instead of trucks

www.retailgazette.co.uk/blog/2018/04/sainsburys-rolls-zero-emission-electric-bike-delivery/

Kazzyhoward I don't know where you live, but here Police officers are like hens' teeth. We have PCSOs, but even they are rarely seen. Unfortunately this is true for large areas of the country. We have traffic wardens occasionally on market day, but they are unlikely to patrol the areas away from the main street.