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Original poster

If your child attends/attended grammar school, are they exceptionally bright?

52 replies

Faith50 · 07/09/2019 10:00

DS is currently meeting expectations and not exceeding in any one area. We know he has no chance with a super selective grammar school but could, as his teacher put it, get a grammar place if he stays focused. I am now concerned that if he passes 11+ and gains a place at grammar school he will linger in the bottom sets and at worst be asked to leave.

I am not very academic, my GCSE results were abysmal. I pushed to get to university but have always gained average marks in exams. Never enough to get me on the courses I had hoped for.

OP posts:
MildThing · 07/09/2019 12:32

Yep, the Grammars are hoovering up the high attainers that push the GCSE stats up.

Which isn’t to say that the high schools (they are not true comps because they lack 25% of ability) aren’t good. You need to look closely and see whether the higher attainers in the school reach their targets. The 50% could include a spread of kids who got 10 x 7,8,and 9 grades, and those passing with 5 x 4 and 5. The important thing for capable kids like your son is that he is enabled to achieve his own potential.

If his teacher says he should pass 11+ great: support him to have a crack at it.

Quick: get some practice papers and work through the techniques with him and give him some practice. If they use VR and NVR they are like puzzles and word games so fun.

MildThing · 07/09/2019 12:35

Oh, OK, your update sort of contradicts your OP.

But boys can mature later: is he summer born?

Is there any harm in putting him in for the 11+?

You can still look at the high schools and not make too big a deal of Grammar.

BarkandCheese · 07/09/2019 12:37

If you’re in a 25% area then no, the child doesn’t need to be super bright, just brighter than 75% of their peers and do around an hour a week of prep work either at home with work books or with a private tutor.

Despite what a lot of people think tutoring isn’t about forcing children who would otherwise fail through the exam, it’s about exam technique and being familiar with the kinds of questions that occur on the papers. Very very few children (or adults) who had never seen or done NVR tests before would be able to decode what was going on and correctly answer them in the time available.

Your best bet is to get a tutor to asses your son and see if it’s going to be worth the stress of going for the 11 plus or not.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education Secondary education SEN
steppemum · 07/09/2019 12:38

The behaviour is something that has really shocked me. There's a weird attitude to it, like we aren't going to crush the spirit of these brilliant kids

this is totally school specific.
I have kids at 2 grammars and one of the bonuses is the incredibly high standard of behaviour expected from the kids.

steppemum · 07/09/2019 12:39

BarkandCheese her son is already in year 6!

Ninkaninus · 07/09/2019 12:41

Mine did and yes she is exceptionally bright, but also very focused and hard-working and quite a disciplined character.

I wouldn’t consider sending your son to a grammar school if he doesn’t like studying, isn’t motivated and isn’t particularly academically orientated. But that’s just my opinion.

JacquesHammer · 07/09/2019 12:43

Just a quick question - if he’s in year 6 has he missed the boat?!

We had to have applied to take the examination by 1st August - the exam being taken 3rd week September.

OneRingToRuleThemAll · 07/09/2019 12:43

DD has just started at grammar school and she has been exceptionally bright from birth. Her memory astounds me. She read by 2, was moved up a year in infant school (and then back down in juniors as her emotional development didn't match her peers).

Now looking at her new friends, she isn't out of the ordinary. She's one of many in the school who are on par with each other.

Ninkaninus · 07/09/2019 12:44

Her school expected excellence from pupils in terms of academic standards and also in terms of behaviour. My youngest daughter took the 11+ but didn’t pass and there is no way she would have coped with the academic pressure. She’s plenty clever and an intelligent woman but wasn’t suited to that sort of environment and would have felt a failure had she been comparing herself to others constantly.

BelindasGleeTeam · 07/09/2019 12:45

If your child is already year 6 you need to check dates because the 11+ for Warwickshire is happening this weekend. You may have already missed entry deadlines.

justintimberlakesfishwife · 07/09/2019 12:52

I'm guessing that the OP has already applied, she's just questioning whether it's worth it.
My DS is "meeting expectations" in all his subjects. A lot of his friends are about to start tutoring for the exam next year. Part of me feels a bit guilty that I'm not "supporting" (ie pushing) him to try for a place, but he has made it clear that it's not what he wants, as he knows that the kids who get in are "super smart", and he himself has said that those at the top of the class as his current school works just be average once they get to grammar. I think his insight is spot on, so he will go to one of the good comps. That's fine with us and most importantly him.

KennDodd · 07/09/2019 12:52

Yes. They were both always top of the class at primary (despite one being the youngest in the year). Super selective grammar, they were each the only child in their school to get in. I have no objection to comp, we are in catchment of an excellent comp. I know that's not the same with you though. I wouldn't have sent them to the grammar they're at if I thought it'll be to much of a struggle, the school wouldn't have fitted them. With bad alternatives though, I don't know what I'd do in your case.

My children are doing great at school (including one at the comp). My eldest has already achieved something I only wished for, she's 5ft9" , that was always my dream height. Grin

DonPablo · 07/09/2019 13:13

Yeah, but my point was just because it's a grammar school doesn't necessarily mean it's a calm environment!

Chocolatecake12 · 07/09/2019 13:18

I have 2 children both at grammar school. First child is averagely bright. Always in middle sets - never struggles - works hard to get the results he gets.
Second child is brighter, gets good results without trying too hard and is in mainly top sets.
Neither were tutored for their 11+
First child got very good gcse results ranging from 7’s to a couple of 5’s. like I said he applied himself to get those results. He has kids in his class who got 9’s and 8’s and barely revised!!

Ninkaninus · 07/09/2019 13:42

My daughters weren’t tutored either; I don’t believe in artificially preparing children for an educational environment like that. But I realise that’s a contentious opinion.

JoJoSM2 · 07/09/2019 14:03

50% of children achieving 5x grades 5-9 is high for a comp as the average is 43%. Speaking of stats, you also need to look at progress scores and ideally broken down by prior attainment.

In terms of the culture and behaviour, it does vary. I have been to a grammar with military discipline too.

If your son is above average, then a grammar that has 4 candidates per space is achievable with work at home and a good day on exam day. The grammars I mentioned above were London ones with 10 times more candidates than places available.

Original poster
Faith50 · 07/09/2019 17:02

Yes my ds will do the 11+ next week. I was just wondering what his chances of getting in were.

OP posts:
fedup21 · 07/09/2019 17:14

Yes my ds will do the 11+ next week. I was just wondering what his chances of getting in were.

Impossible for any of us to predict.

How has he done on mocks?

Autumnintheair · 07/09/2019 17:19

If focus is his issue then I'd say 100% the grammar. Being around other bright, motivated dc will help carry him along.

Without a doubt the grammar, he sounds like candidate for being lazy and falling behind then getting in with the the wrong crowd.

Original poster
Faith50 · 07/09/2019 17:23

He received 116 in his CAT results. Average mark is between 85 and 115.

OP posts:
JoJoSM2 · 07/09/2019 18:21

CAT scores of 116 are just over 1 standard deviation over the average? He does stand a chance if he’s well prepared and doesn’t panic in exams. Good luck OP!

JoJoSM2 · 07/09/2019 18:23

Oh, and don’t worry if he doesn’t get in and goes to the comp with under 50% GCSE pass rates (grades 9-5). As long as the school has average or above progress scores, the top set will still be kids getting mostly grades 7-9 if it’s a largish school.

Original poster
Faith50 · 07/09/2019 18:52

Thanks for all your encouragement and advice. Some parents are really on the ball with the 11+. We are trying not to put pressure on our ds. I plan to take him out at the weekend for a treat.

OP posts:
Thornhill58 · 07/09/2019 19:42

Our son did the exam and was 8 points away from getting in. We were sad at the time but his maths just aren't good enough. His English has been top set since starting secondary school and he has been doing great but I know he would have struggled in Grammar School as he just can't get his maths to top set.
At least he is happy at his comprehensive.

Outofideas1 · 07/09/2019 20:05

4 kids per place is not that competitive. In our area it’s more like 12 kids per place. I think your son has a chance.