My 8 yo won't take responsibilities for his actions and it's utterly infuriating me.

[NoDontLookAtMeImShy]

I have three children. And this isn't a problem I've come across yet.

My 8yo will not take responsibilities for his actions at home or at school.
We have an action plan at home which helps a lot.

But at school with friendships it's a constant issue.

Today he comes home in tears because three of his friends told him to go away because he's being too rough during play.

He denied being rough then said everyone was being rough and started crying that it's not his fault (it's never his fault ).

I said if they felt he was playing rough then that's what had happened and you have to believe them, and stop.

He denies things, blames others, plays the victim.
Anything other than taking responsibility for his actions.

I'm sick to death of hearing about him falling out with his pals at school because he fails to see anyone's side of things.
He does it at home too but as a parent I manage it.

I've spoken to the school numerous times about friendship issues but to be honest it's just getting embarrassing.

I've tried telling him to repeat the mantra
"Am I being kind?"
"How can I be kind and make the situation better?"

But he just sulks and says all the teachers will blame him.

Apparently he's the only one the teachers pick on and he's the only one who gets punished and no one else.

This is absolutely not true.

I really can be doing with another year of this.

Help?

How is he with his siblings? How does he respond if you ask him to turn it around and see the other person’s point of view - if someone doesn’t believe him/keeps pushing him etc how does it make him feel?

He can be great!

He can also be an absolute arse.
I can set my watch by him.
He's lovely all day and 2pm strikes and he changes.

I put him to bed early and he sleeps really well and it's a newish issue (in the last year and a half id say but slowly brewing before that).

May seem irrelevant but does he have any hobbies?
My DS behaviour improved when he started playing a sport and had to learn to be part of a team. Learnt he couldn't carry-on behaving the way he was.

Yes. He plays guitar and drums which cost me a fortune.
We also did dance and football but he wasn't keen after a while.
Music is his thing.

He's still the way he is though...

If he’s ALWAYS awful post 2pm ... what does he eat for lunch? Is it equivalent to a sugar-crash type thing?

Team activities will help as PP said, so can he join an orchestra/band so not on his own?
And maybe over emphasise role model taking responsibility yourself. So “I’m sorry I did this (without then saying it’s because I’m tired/whatever excuse, just straight up apology) when opportunity arises

He does he plays guitar and drums as a group and plays at Christmas with with them as a band.

His diet is excellent, he's allowed sweets once a week. I can't imagine a sugar crash be possible.

No one?

I was so hoping someone would say "my 25 year old was like that at his age then he turned 9 and he was suddenly fantastic!"

😭

have you tried acknowledging his feelings before trying to remedy the situation? One of mine went through a challenging phase where he wouldn't accept ANY wrongdoing on his part, and it just compounded the whole situation as I pushed harder to make him admit he was wrong. We ended up in a vicious circle of blame and defiance.

Eventually I tried stepping back and just hearing him (I got this from How To Talk So Kids Will Listen) and really tried to empathise without judging for a bit. It made him feel heard and after a bit he was able to talk about where his reponsibility for the situation might fall.

It didn't cure it over night but it definitely helped .

Yes I have (I read that book with my first child I loved the book in theory!). I spent most of the year not only listening, and sympathising, I believed him 100% that he was the victim.

Now I know different. Big time.

oh dear, sorry to hear that!

Have you tried turning the table.... saying something hurtful to him and refusing to a accept blame? With a view to having a conversation later on obviously. It’s not easy to have empathy if you have not been on the receiving end, and it doesn’t sound like empathy is in his dna... so he’s going to have to learn it

My 8 year old is like this too but he is Autistic and literally does not understand that other people have feelings too.

I am not suggesting your son is Autistic but some of the strategies we use might help.

We have to work really hard to label feelings. So "when you do this X feels sad/scared etc."

Actually, I have tired once at turning the tables.
I think think it worked.

Hmm... this is helpful. I really need to think about that an how I can use that with his school friends.

How can I use that when I'm wasn't present for the situation?

8 is such a tricky age. I work in a school and have a 9 year old at home so was in your shoes last year! In school, year 4 is a tough year, lots of friendship issues, falling out and generally upsetting each other with the smallest of actions or insult.

By year 5 they seem slightly more resilient and able to manage their emotions more effectively.

A good strategy is to try and build self confidence as much as possible. I think sometimes if kids feel self conscious and have a low opinion of themselves they are quick to poke fun at others or be unkind as a way of trying to control the situation.

My daughter had some sessions provided through the school nurse (you can contact them yourself and ask for help) she worked on managing emotions and promoting self worth. It really helped alongside her naturally ‘growing up’

As a side note, Iv witnessed just how sneaky kids can be, so if a certain child is prone to playing roughly they might be pushing his buttons to get him into trouble.

Hang in there, I hope things get better soon

My best friend was like this as a child. Unfortunately she's still like this as an adult.

It does affect her socially as nobody wants to listen to her whine how the world is out to get her, it's always someone else's fault, etc etc. But otherwise she's a kind person and holds down a good job so even if it's a personality trait it doesn't quite mean he's doomed

Im working on this and getting there slowly with my ds. I listen to what he has to tell me and show empathy. Dont put the blame on anyone involved - keep neutral. then i ask him how he could have reacted differently in the situation. If he tries to tell me again what the others did I pull him back to focus on his part in it. Tell him that we are talking about him now not the others. I try to emphasise that he can't change the behaviour and of others and isn't responsible for their behaviour but he can change how he reacts.
It's a process to get him to change his way of thinking. It takes time.

I sort of have this with of my sons. He is 13.
He has an outsize sense of "fairness" and righteousness and has since he was tiny. ( which if we can channel it will serve him well later but for now it's a pain in the arse). He also has mild OCD and rules are important. Bad planing is out, as he cannot deal.
When he was smaller, he could not accept he might be in the wrong. Ever.
Still holds a grudge like a Mafiosa. Cross him and he'll get his own back months later. Still working on this tendency.

Many, many things are not his fault and it's not fair. He walks around with a mental scale of justice operating in his head constantly.
What has worked with us is that we "out logic him".

As an example - he spent several days raging about a test his teacher had announced. They are sometimes given verbal notice at school at least 2 weeks out. This teacher had only given one week notice. Rather than study, he was upset as it wasn't fair they only got a week. He had a list of five things to do for it the teacher had given him.
His school has an email calendar and notification system for tests etc. He hadn't checked it. His brother sat down with him and showed him the test was listed, the teacher didn't actually have to tell him at all, it was fair of her to give them a reminder and that those five things were actually what was in the test = more than fair. Ergo he was wrong. We had to show him several times, before he accepted it was in fact more than fair. That resolved , he could study.

This happens with food - your brother is bigger than you as is your father and they need to eat more - list of biological requirements , growth patterns and the effects of physical labour ( husbands a farmer).
Shopping - his brother got bought something he needed, its it not fair. Explain why, rinse repeat.

We're getting there.
We're finding him things to do that fit within who he is, cause he isn't going to change.
He's developing into a fantastic soccer referee and is in great demand as the only junior ref who knows all the rules and is very very fair.
God help the world if he choses any profession relating to justice or equality.

Wakeupalready, that's really interesting. Can see a few unbending traits I have in what you say and also have some ASD qualities.
Being stressed about whatever the central issue is makes it a lot more difficult to let go of even if on one level you know life would be much easier - not surprising I guess.

2 viewpoints offered to me at certain points that did make a difference, and that make sense to me, were: "Not everybody sees it the same way as you do" (the phrase was in fact "has the same standards as you do", it made particular sense to the situation at the time), and of certain people "Well, they're not just going to change suddenly, are they?" (e.g. to behave 'according to the 'right' rules).

The only thing that pops into my head is ask what happened, how did ds feel, etc and then ask how his friends felt, don't allow the
'But I was right' conversation. They were all there and had feelings and he needs to acknowledge how they felt whether they were right or not.
And talk about how it could have gone differently, what could have happened if his friends had said he was too rough, he secretly disagreed but altered his behaviour anyway. Which situation would have been more fun.

@Omally - thank you for that response.I 've used the "well, they aren't going to change " point of view with him, plus an add on of "Just because you tell them they're wrong" before.
But I really like the "not everyone has the same standards as you" - because he also plays soccer - and is quite good at it, but will loose focus totally when players on the other team trash talk, or do something wrong the referee didn't see. He then spends the rest of the match seeing if he can get whichever individual "broke the rules" to get caught out by the referee which puts his game off. Your comment will appeal to him, I know it will. Thanks!

You could send him for some play therapy/art therapy to help him talk about and work through his emotions and why he is reacting the way he is. I might be good for him to talk to someone impartial??