How do vegans (especially kids) get enough choline?

[HavelockVetinari]

Choline is essential for our brains to work properly, it's vital to our entire nervous system. Most sources are meat, fish, eggs and dairy. It's present in some veg, but a 2 year old would need about half a kilo of broccoli, cauliflower or nuts (the richest plant sources) to get the minimum required for health.

How on earth do vegan parents manage it,particularly when their DC are young and their brains are still forming?

N.B. I'm not vegan bashing, I think it's the best diet for the environment, but I'm not sure sure about the health side.

DC will happily eat 500g of broccoli daily, so maybe that, or maybe supplements.

Its also present in tofu, soya, kidney beans, quinoa, lentils ...

Most of the vegans I know are very aware that getting adequate nutrition takes work. None of them are the anti-science woo types, so if they weren't aware before the recent news stories they'll probably check their diet and get a specific supplement if they are worried. They are all extra careful with kids.

DC will happily eat 500g of broccoli daily, so maybe that, or maybe supplements

I am v jealous! I have to chop up veg like broccoli and hide it in things for DS to eat it.

@ratspeaker yes, but they're all relatively low in choline, you'd need an awful lot to get enough - more than you would comfortably eat in a day.

Presumably supplements are the answer here?

IME experience (limited to DH and his family and some friends, and a work colleague, and my sister, and to my own research because DH is vegan etc) vegans tend to be more educated and more aware about nutrients than most. And will take supplements for the things that cannot readily be found in a vegan diet such as B12.

Do you think this new scare is because dairy and meat industries are afraid of the rise in veganism? Nobody asks most people about their nutrients except for vegans. If you eat a diet with lots of whole food you will have all the nutrients you need. Even b12, iron and omegas are fed to animals so that humans can then get them which is insane. I have know a number of people to be deficit in various vitamins and minerals and none of them are vegans (as I only know 3 vegans incl me 😂 but none are deficit in things but do take b12). So ask yourself where this new concern is coming from. Eat your fruit, veg, legumes and nuts and seeds and you will be fine.

I’m pretty sure I was raised on a diet of exclusively chicken nuggets and chips at one point as I refused to eat anything else. The closest thing to veg I tolerated was baked beans (Heinz, obviously!)

Given that I survived without a large number of vitamins and nutrients growing up; and many children nowadays do the same; I find all this faux-handwringing about B12 and Choline a bit weird. Honestly - I thought this was a misspelling of chlorine at first. And I’m not even a vegan.

Do you really give a shiny shite about the diet of vegan children or do you just want to have a go? If you’re really concerned, there are many parents that feed their children a diet of fast food which i’m sure is much much worse for them!

I'm with other posters in thinking that vegans are extra careful about balancing our diets.

I get my science from this website and try to read research articles first hand. It can be sobering to realise the possible health implications of everyday foods.

Plus, no way of eating is likely to be perfect, we're all just doing our best.

I have to agree that the few vegans I know/have known are pretty clued up on nutrients. Obviously b12 supplement is a must as b12 deficiency is no joke!!

My DS has CMPA so i breastfed until 2 to ensure he had benefits from that, it is hard though to get fat calcium iodine and all the other elements that dairy offers even with replacement milks

Given that I survived without a large number of vitamins and nutrients growing up

Here is the thing, though: the risks relating to low choline levels are stuff like, mothers with low levels of choline have a higher risk of giving birth to children who go on to develop issues such as schizophrenia later on. Similar issue with Vitamin D level, where the elevated risks are of things like type 1 diabetes and other autoimmune conditions. And folic acid, where of course it is to do with spina bifida etc. The large majority of people who had choline/vitamin D/folic acid-deficient mothers are not going to have schizophrenia, type 1 diabetes etc. But it is likely that there are cases which could potentially have been prevented, had the mothers in question consumed more of these nutrients.

It's not so long ago that people would be heard saying "well, I never took folic acid or gave my kids vitamin D and we all turned out fine!!" Nowadays, most of us would consider this kind of attitude naive, and I suspect that in the future the same will be the case regarding choline.

I get that this is a sensitive subject, but I do not think that there is any need for the defensive tone. The OP actually said in her post that she believes plant-based diets are better for the planet so I doubt she is just starting a thread to try and slag off vegans--she is raising a very valid question, and she isn't the first to have some concerns about strict vegan diets and choline.

I am really far from being a bloodthirsty carnivore and actually consider myself a reducitarean, but I am aware of the choline thing. I actually researched and procured the only brand of baby cereal which is fortified with choline, precisely because I had heard that this can be an issue, and that choline is connected with the development of the brain and cognitive function. Given that it is apparently quite easy to fortify foods with choline, perhaps we need to be open-minded about this as a possibility, going forward?

I think fortifying foods with choline might be a dangerous choice, given the risks outlined on the web page that I link to above. I realise that people don't like to click on cloaked links, so here is the link in full, to a charity run by the American doctor, Michael Greger:
nutritionfacts.org/topics/choline/

To sum up, although choline is an essential nutrient, excess choline is linked to heart disease and cancer.

It's always better to eat a varied and therefore hopefully balanced diet than to supplement, if you can obtain nutrients by natural means.

A lot of research is commissioned and funded by the meat and dairy industry to boost flagging sales. It looks plausible at first glance but if you can find the actual report (or an abstract of it) you can check whether it's really independent. You may have to check into the funding of a charity that fronts it. They will also have press officers to make sure the results reach the front pages of the tabloids, and they will only report the results that support their cause.

Additionally, some research will not be based on the general population but, for example, on a subset who eat a very limited diet without vegetables, or on mice, or on cells in a Petrie dish.

Ultimately we all have to make our own decisions though, often based on what's practical for us, and trust our own judgement.

Do you realise that tje repkrt published was funded, as was her 'research' by the farming industry?

If you really want information then go onto your local Vegan FB page. Or their Website.

For centuries people ate total and manly a Vegan diet. No ill health was recorded.

"Nutritionist Emma Derbyshire told a BMJ journal that people not eating those foods may not get sufficient choline"

Nitice she saus things like, "may not, perhaps, possibly".

Because she hasn't shown anything other than a Vegan has to plan out their diet.

But when routine bloods are done, a lot of meat eaters lack nutrients.

I am fairly certain that my son would rather take a cheese grater to his toes than eat broccoli or anything naturally green.

Do you think this new scare is because dairy and meat industries are afraid of the rise in veganism?

Well I did laugh when an 'expert' was basically bashing vegetarians in a newspaper. She was doing it for some meat company or other.....

I realise that people don't like to click on cloaked links, so here is the link in full, to a charity run by the American doctor, Michael Greger:

Here is a very good and balanced write-up of How Not To Die, the flagship book written by Michael Greger. As the reviewers discuss, some of MG's ideas are sound, but he seems excitable and prone to chucking conspiracy theories around. He also appears to have an agenda as big as a house when it comes to promoting plant-based diets, although he does say that he does not specifically promote veganism.

thehealthsciencesacademy.org/book-reviews/how-not-to-die/

I think shifting in the direction of more plant-based diets is essential for environmental reasons, but I am not sure it is helpful to say "That study's probably funded by Big Meat!" every time something comes out that is not 100% flattering to strict veganism.

By the way, the Emma Derbyshire paper is this one. I looked at several online sources and no funding source was stated, nor was any conflict of interest noted. Do you have a reliable source (not a claim on a Facebook page) stating that it was funded by the farm industry? Obviously I may have missed something.
www.researchgate.net/publication/335493580_Could_we_be_overlooking_a_potential_choline_crisis_in_the_United_Kingdom

For centuries people ate total and manly a Vegan diet. No ill health was recorded

what?

Yep... all those cave paintings showing them out hunting quinoa....

For centuries people ate total and manly a Vegan diet. No ill health was recorded

Yes it's true, in Asia especially

Lots of fruit, veg, pulses and nuts.

I had an ED for years and I am very regularly monitored to make sure I’m not deficient anywhere, I am always well above the normal range on my results, as my son has the same diet I know he is getting enough of everything as well.

Yes it's true, in Asia especially

1. Asia is a vast continent, where people eat a huge variety of diets and always have done.

1. Veganism has never been the norm anywhere in Asia! Of course you have people eating more plant-oriented diets without a whole lot of animal produce, but this is not vegan, so it's irrelevant to the discussion. The discussion is about veganism, not "diets without much meat/fish" or "ova-lacto-vegetarian diets".

Choline is an important building block of a brain chemical that plays a vital role in memory retention & learning.

The BMJ raised concerns about vegans and choline deficiency, if you follow a vegan diet, you will be happy to hear that the current body of conclusive evidence is limited.

The great news is if you follow a vegan diet you can obtain your daily adequate intake (AI) of choline from plant-based sources. The following article lists the TOP 10 plant-based food sources for choline and information on the form of choline that may be more favourable for the brain. This would useful to consider if you are going to purchase choline supplements.

brain-feed.com/vegans-choline-deficient/