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Original poster

What can I actually do about the prorogation/Brexit madness?

53 replies

KindergartenKop · 29/08/2019 08:43

Does anyone have any suggestions about what I could do about this? Are there any demonstrations? Is it risky to take kids to them? I've had enough!

OP posts:
TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 14:02

If he really is struggling to make himself understood he needs to be clearer.
In reality that is not the problem. The problem is he is having to use procedural wallpaper to cover the fact that there is no consensus in the country for any way forward.
That is his real problem and it isn’t going away.

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 14:03

Ps whether he threatens no deal or not, it of course is the default position. The EU and it’s member states understand this even if seemingly no one in the uk does.
We used to be the sick man of Europe. Now we’re the stupid man of Europe. And yes, that is what they all think. Correctly.

Mrstwiddle · 29/08/2019 14:06

I voted leave and think this is a good move by Boris Johnson.

If the vote had gone the other way, I would have accepted that we were remaining, been pissed off for a week or so, and then got over it.

You can write letters, go on demos etc etc but you may just want to calm your blood pressure and accept the inevitability of a life outside the EU... just a thought.

CloudyVanilla · 29/08/2019 14:09

Yes, precisely that is true. There is no such thing as taking no deal off the table in reality. It’s either extend or call it off, or have a deal, but no deal will always be the, “if we do nothing else that is what will happen”, scenario.

Not sure how it’s the EU’s issue to the point where they would need to be “threatened” with a Johnson’s oh so very clever keeping no deal on the table plan. They want a deal, but unlike the UK, their position seeks even to me pretty clear.

Biologyquestion · 29/08/2019 14:17

We used to be the sick man of Europe. Now we’re the stupid man of Europe. And yes, that is what they all think. Correctly.

^ this - with bells on.

And to think otherwise is part of the colonialist mentality that got us to this juncture in the first place. Boris has the gift of the gab, but he is lazy, ignorant and unprincipled, and doesn’t hold a candle to many EU politicians.

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 14:20

The extent to which people here are unable to understand the EU perspective - or even grasp that it exists and is relevant - is very striking.
Legislating domestically for no deal affects nothing at EU level. Boris posturing and prancing affects nothing at EU level. There’s no point telling them “we really really mean it.” Whether we mean it or not it’s what will happen unless other events intervene.

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 14:22

Forgive me but it’s not a colonialist mentality. Abhorrent that may have been but it acknowledged the existence and reality of a world outside these islands (and demonstrated interest in it). We seem unable at the moment to take account of the fact that the world outside actually exists.

DGRossetti · 29/08/2019 14:27

We seem unable at the moment to take account of the fact that the world outside actually exists.

Well some can. Others are fully aware of the world outside and feel it's better to be part of something bigger, than face it alone. It won't be the EU chomping on chlorinated chicken for sure.

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 14:36

The naive optimism in relation to the US may be the most pathetically laughable aspect of this whole debacle.

Bluntness100 · 29/08/2019 14:38

To be fair, his tactics are working, the rumours coming out of Brussels is they are now seriously discussing the concessions they can give us to avoid no deal. Yes it might fail. But so what? We can still take no deal off the table when parliament sits again.

I am a remainer. But even I can see that the best chance he's got of getting a deal is to have a credible threat of no deal and not paying. If parliament takes it off the table we are back to square one where we were with Teresa May, where it was never s credible threat. Even Brussels said after they knew it would never happen.

Yes, Boris is swinging his dick around and playing hard ball. And I said a few weeks ago it would be a scarey time for the U.K. as he played hard ball and threatened no deal to get a concession. It would be very different if he'd not left enough time to take it off the table when paltilament sits again, but he has. And if it comes off the table,we are back to the whole extend shit.

Bottom line is he's trying to get it done. He's created a safety net of time to prevent no deal if required. It's going down to the wire, but it was always going to.

But allowing parliament to take no deal off the table again now only takes us back to where we were when Teresa May quit. It's fucking pointless.

I don't want us to leave, but even I can see what he's trying to do and that he has a shot at success of getting a deal through.

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 14:43

You can’t take no deal off the table. Nor can you influence whether or not it happens by domestic legislation. The timing of our exit is a matter of eu not domestic law.
I really don’t see what’s so hard to understand about this, really.

CloudyVanilla · 29/08/2019 14:51

Can we please not pretend that Boris Johnson is engineering a threat of no deal against the EU?

That threat exists regardless and will be damaging to all of us. Just because the EU may be taking this far more seriously than we are, it’s not because Boris Johnson is playing some magic upper hand or brilliant tactic.

If the EU are indeed panicking and cosidering concessions, it’s because unlike us they take the prospect of no deal seriously and understand the implications.

VerityAl · 29/08/2019 14:52

I think if you want to do something to protest about Brexit, you would be more effective contacting the political party you support to discuss how you can help them with the next election. I believe the porogation issue is a smokescreen that has sent all of those opposed to Brexit/'No Deal' off chasing their tails (as I am sure BJ/Rees-Mogg/Cummings hoped it would). BJ and his cohort will have been meeting with Farage and the DUP to work out how they can win a quick election (promising investment in the NHS/Education/Police etc). The win will give him the majority he needs to get anything he wants pushed through the HoC.

Gilead · 29/08/2019 15:03

The rumours coming out of Brussels are that they are looking into whether or not Boris has overstepped boundaries within the EU laws.

On top of this, for those who are saying it's a good move for Brexit etc. This is NOT about Brexit, it's about removing the voice of the people. All peoples. Those for whom you voted, who represent us are unable to attend the commons and are therefore unable to represent us. Ergo, we the plebs have no voice. That's what's worrying. And what happens next time something he doesn't like happens?

Biologyquestion · 29/08/2019 15:05

Forgive me but it’s not a colonialist mentality.

I meant colonialist in the sense that the foreigner is assumed to be “lesser” in all ways, including intelligence.

Cinammoncake · 29/08/2019 15:09

On top of this, for those who are saying it's a good move for Brexit etc. This is NOT about Brexit, it's about removing the voice of the people. All peoples. Those for whom you voted, who represent us are unable to attend the commons and are therefore unable to represent us. Ergo, we the plebs have no voice. That's what's worrying. And what happens next time something he doesn't like happens?

Exactly. If overriding parliament becomes a habit then we're all in trouble. Especially without the protection the EU currently provides.

Peregrina · 29/08/2019 16:12

Those of you who think Johnson's behaviour is wonderful: ask yourself whether you would have accepted this from a Corbyn or Blair Government. Unless you can truthfully put your hand on your hearts and say Yes, then you know that you are talking as much bollocks as Johnson himself does.

I do think, as I have said elsewhere, that he's now unleashed something which he will not be able to control.

DGRossetti · 29/08/2019 16:21

I do think, as I have said elsewhere, that he's now unleashed something which he will not be able to control.

To be fair that ship sailed when Cameron did his "where's wally" impersonation and scuttled (or debatably when the alleged dead-pig-fucker made a political promise the result would be enacted, thus avoiding any legal oversight).

There was probably a 5-minute window on 24th June where Cameron could have said "thanks for the steer, we'll get back to you on how we leave later", and started the process of an orderly Brexit.

Peregrina · 29/08/2019 16:38

I think DGR there was also a moment when May took over when she could have said that Cameron's promises weren't hers and that she would review the situation. She could have reminded the electorate that they had put the Tory Government in which had a commitment to the Single Market for example. Once she appeased the ERG then the ship sailed.

However, I think this is worse - think of the fuel strikes, think of the rioting which happened back in 2011 when buildings got burnt down. I think it could get very very nasty.

DGRossetti · 29/08/2019 16:51

I think DGR there was also a moment when May took over when she could have said that Cameron's promises weren't hers and that she would review the situation.

(I have made a will, and last requests. My donor card is up to date ...)

I don't think that that was possible in a million years for the simple fact Theresa May lacks a Y chromosome. Anyone who thinks we have anything remotely approaching equality of the sexes in politics at the highest level is clearly on much stronger drugs than I am.

TheBigBallOfOil · 29/08/2019 17:10

I also wonder if we will see civil unrest.
Government policy for the last three years has been based on appeasing leavers, who whine the loudest and let us face it, embrace some unsavoury elements. I am not saying all leavers are unsavoury, stupid people everywhere; merely that the leave camp embraces people of this type. Remainers on the other han are all boring respectable types - oops sorry, elitist metropolitan types - who will put up and shut up.
These assumptions are about to be tested. We will see.

DGRossetti · 29/08/2019 17:24

Government policy for the last three years has been based on appeasing leavers, who whine the loudest and let us face it, embrace some unsavoury elements.

There's some Kipling for that. Boris might know it.

And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

Bravelurker · 29/08/2019 18:46

Trump the tericota terrorist to the rescue, yay!!! He will save us all Hmm.

SinittasDancers · 29/08/2019 19:50

This is down to Dominic Cummings, Boris is just the mouthpiece.

Leafyhouse · 29/08/2019 20:52

I think the best revenge on Brexiters is just to wait until we're out, then vote a Remain party in, then re-join the EU but with massively reduced terms!