5 year old - 1 hour to get to sleep... HELP!

[cjt110]

DS had always been an OK sleeper. Went through his nighttime wakings which we dealt with.

Approx 3 months ago he asked if i could sit with him when he went to sleep. He never asked for this so I agreed - something may have spooked him etc and he wanted comfort.

Here I am 3 months on and I am tearing my bloody hair out.

We get him ready for bed at 7. He's usually in bed at the latest for 7.30.

The night usually goes as so:

He asks me to sit with him. I do and he talks. I tell him not to talk or I will go out. He talks. I go out. He cries - panics - almost like he is having a panic attack. I go back in. Tell him not to talk and I will sit with him 'til he goes to sleep. He talks or starts to drop off. I go out. He comes in to the lounge (it's next to his room) and says he cant sleep can i stay with him. i do and the whole saga above ensues.

Last night after an hour, DH came down and sat with him. He was asleep within minutes and doesn't go through any of the above with husband.

I feel like I am a failure. He is 5 and won't go to sleep. That I can't get him to go to sleep.

By the time the saga is finished I am shattered and cant be arsed to do household things and usually end up in bed an hour later myself.

Please, if anyone can give any advice, I would appreciate it.

@Belgravian I've done the comforting and staying with him and it doesn't work. Unless you have something useful to add, that doesn't make me feel shitter, then please refrain.

I've had one extremely difficult sleeper (he improved a lot when he was 7 and now at 8 we only have the occasional wobble at bedtime and nightmares at night).

I also have a 5 year old who has always been better than his brother, but didn't sleep through until he was 4 and still wakes several nights a week with nightmares and occasionally is difficult at bedtime (if something is bothering him).

What I have learnt over the years is that they go in phases. What worked for months, will suddenly stop working. You have to stay flexible and if you don't, then you just get more impatient and they get more wound up and everyone is unhappy.

For example for over a year the now 5 year old has gone to sleep in his bed. Every night this week, my 5 year old has ended up going to sleep in our bed and we move him later. Why? Because he is at a holiday club that he hates and is in floods of tears morning and evening. So I've relaxed the rules but I know that at the end of the week he'll be back in his bed happily.

I do still sit in his room whilst he goes to sleep but he's asleep within 5 minutes usually. We start bedtime routine at 8pm and he's usually asleep by 8.20/30 at the latest. I sit in his room and read my phone or watch Netflix with headphones. I'm relaxed, so he is relaxed.

It's hard. I sympathise. But I have lost entire evenings of my life for years on end to bedtime difficulties (we even took DS1 to a psychologist cos his bedtimes were so awful). Now my evenings are much better but if for a week or so I have to "go backwards" then I do. And a week later it's all better.

Oh and watching netflix with my headphones in is a great sign to DS that I will not engage in conversation.

I literally could cry this morning. First thing he did was cuddle me and apologise for screaming last night.

I'm thinking new routine to try.. even if it means laying with him in our bed.

Don’t put him in your bed!!!

Make a big fuss today of having heard an AMAZING idea and tonight, once you’re done charting for 10 minutes about his day and reading to him: get him to stand up, mark his height on the door and ihm and ah a bit, then pull out an iPad or similar and tell him he is now old/tall enough to be allowed to listen to a story whilst falling asleep. Tell him you’re very jealous because you are too old for it yourself now and then pick a book from audible he would enjoy. Something lighthearted, funny... my daughter likes the Roald Dahl stories just now (she’s 5 as well). Set the timer and off you go - since you are too old/tall and aren’t allowed to listen after all ;-)

Or, if you think you can’t put on a “all is well” show, make up an appointment or reason to go out an hour before his bedtime, come back an hour after and let your hubby start of that routine...

Really? Give a child an ipad to get to sleep? What happened to books?

I’m sorry you’re feeling dreadful. It’s a really long bedtime process and should get easier. I wish I had some advice but other than bath, read, go to sleep the same time every night, I have nothing.

@Toodeloo That's a good suggestion but I honestly feel so broken I couldn't do that upbeat shit today. I am out until approx 7pm straight from work tonight and am minded to just let DH deal with bedtime. He's at my parent's tomorrow night and then I will tackle a new routine on Friday.

Really? Give a child an ipad to get to sleep? What happened to books? If I read him an actual book rather than make a story up myself he kicks off. My husband tried to read to him last night and it created holy hell. And, afterall, he's just turned 5 and can't really read.

We all do what we do to get the fuck by. Right now I'll try anything.

I would try putting him to bed just 30 minutes later.

Could you just let him talk to you but not engage? (try headphones)

What time do you get back from work and how long before he goes to bed? Does he have time to talk to you during that time? (I'm not a good example, I'm home and for the next hour I'm supervising DS1's homework then bang, it's DS2's bedtime and the poor mite hasn't had much attention so he'll often start chatting when he's in bed).

Another thing I've seen is a timer. You tell him you will talk with him for 10 minutes but after that it's lights out and he goes to sleep.

Up to you whether you stay in his room or not. You could also stay in his room and ignore him. Then work up to sitting outside his room and ignore him and then downstairs etc.

In the nicest possible way, I do think you need to step back and stop stressing. it's a phase. It really is. He won't still be wanting you to sit with him when he's a teenager.

Yes it's been 3 months and that's hard, but things will change again.

Find something to do in his room so you don't feel ike you're losing your whole evening. Or just send DH in to put him to bed for a wekk or whatever to break the habit.

Tonight I am out. Hopefully with me not there it will be nothing of note for him going to bed.

I hate us all being upset and wound up and everything in between.

He won't still be wanting you to sit with him when he's a teenager. I bloody hope not lol

Trust me, I have ended up many many evenings in floods of tears/wanting to scream in frustration because of bedtimes.

Last year my then 7 year old was having a hard time with school and several important changes in the family. He had loads of nightmares. We put a mattress on our floor and said if he woke in the night he could come and sleep there. He started coming at 4am ish. and gradually it got earlier and earlier until he refused point blank to sleep anywhere else no matter what I tried. I tried bribery, I tried punishments (e.g. no screen time), I tried love-bombing. Everything. Nothing worked.

Eventually I gave up. Until the Christmas holidays. First day I told him he was back in his room and staying there all night and if I had to sit in with him all night I didn't care, as he didn't have school and I didn't have work.

The first night he screamed at me non-stop for 1 hour. (I just sat there reading and trying to ignore him).

The second night he screamed for 20 minutes.

The third night he complained loudly for 5 minutes then went to sleep.

The fourth night he went to sleep no problem.

After a couple of months we stopped sitting in with him. And, fingers crossed, we haven't gone back.

We always praise him every morning for going to bed so well and staying in his bed. I do get up to him for nightmares but he stays in his room now.

(to be fair he does have a couple of health issues and is very anxious which explains his bad sleeping but still, I have been at the end of my tether many times)

Sorry that was so long

I could write a book with all the things we've tried for DS1's sleep.

@CielBleuEtNuages Thanks for sharing. I am torn. I think I will just go straight home after work tonight and try and have a better night the three of us.

No idea if it will work but have bought some bedtime bubblebath and will see if that helps at all.

I wouldn't.

Go out. Have a break. Take the pressure off.

Your DH can put him to bed. Even if he shouts for mummy, well tough, mummy isn't here right now.

You can have a better night all 3 of you tomorrow.

@CielBleuEtNuages He's at a sleepover at my parents tomorrow night...

I suppose it makes no sense to start a new routine today is he's out tomorrow does it

thats good.

Tonight - daddy puts him to bed. If he has to sit with him then so be it.

Tomorrow sleepover with GPs

Start afresh after that. And be kind to yourself! 5 year olds don't come with instructions any more than babies do! We're all just trying to work it out and every child is different and will react differently to things.

Just want to say you’re not a failure and you’re not a terrible mother OP. I have an adopted DD who was / is a terrible sleeper. Her issues are deep rooted in anxiety and attachment and trauma she experienced pre adoption but here are some of the things I’ve tried that at various points have worked. She’s 9 now and mostly sleeps in her own room with me beside her til she drops off which means the whole bedtime routine takes between 45 mins and 1 hour. Not perfect but SO much better than hours of stress for both of us. Hang in there it does get better. I promise.

Reading / telling the same story each night
‘Calm’ app - after stories and any required chat about the day we put the calm app on and meditate (just breathe consciously together for about 5 mins to soothing sounds)
Worry monster toy - hanging on her bed. We ‘feed’ him any worries she has - either verbally or written down
Dream catchers above the bed to ‘catch any bad dreams’
Picture-gram (drawn by DD) of bedtime routine so she knows what is happening next
‘Emergency bed’ - ie mattress on the floor - next to my bed which she can use at any point in the night if she wakes up. She started by waking me up but we’ve gradually got to the point where she comes in without waking me up now and can settle off to sleep by herself
Reading a meditation story together. There’s a series of books called ‘Relax kids’ meditations for children and they seemed to help calm DD when she was younger
Turning the tv / screens off half an hour before bedtime and doing something like colouring, jigsaws, board or card games together before bed
Redecorating her bedroom - making her bed more like a den to help her feel safe and secure
Bunk beds - I have no idea why this helped but getting bunk beds and her sleeping on the top bunk worked miracles! (And it meant I had somewhere comfy to sit whilst she dropped off!)
Lava lamp / glitter lamp the colours seek to soothe her
A weighted blanket (not an official weighted blanket as they’re v expensive! but just a nice textured - to her mind - one that was quite heavy)

I realise re reading this that it all sounds pretty ‘hippy dippy’ but I was at the end of my tether like you and willing to try anything. Best of luck

@Lifeisabastard Not hippy dippy at all. It sounds good. Any suggestion is welcomed.

He's at my Mum's today and I called him. He said he missed me. I asked would he like m to come home and read some stories later and he said yes so I think I will.

That’s lovely that he misses you and is receptive to the stories idea. I’ve remembered one other thing we sometimes do at bedtime which is based on theraplay activities. If you google theraplay you should be able to find some quiet games that are designed to build the bond between child and parent. We do pizza and weather. Basically DD lies on her tummy and I ‘make’ a pizza on her back so gently slap down the dough, spoon the tomato sauce over, chop up the pepperoni, sprinkle the herbs etc (all imaginary obvs!) and then ‘cook’ the pizza by hugging her tightly. It’s all about strengthening the parent child connection through gentle touch.

The weather one is similar, I make various weather symbols on her back or tummy so light fingers for raindrops, a big circle for sun, wide finger stripes for a rainbow, a gentle slap for thunder etc.

It all usually ends in giggles but it helps to diffuse any bedtime anxiety

I have two terrible sleepers. I feel your pain!

The 7 year old is the hardest to deal with. She needs us to stay with her until she's asleep. She'll try to choose which parent puts her to bed... Usually the one that can't do it eg if OH is still at work she wants him! She reads, then spends hours tossing and turning, chatting, saying she can't sleep. Eventually when you think she's in a deep enough sleep for you to leave, creep away really carefully... she wakes up and you have to start all over again! We've tried all sorts.... Warm bath, no screens before bed, no screens at all, calming music, audio books, weighted blanket, herbal tea, warm milk, lavender room spray, massage creams, breathing exercises, reward charts, bribery.... Any attempt to get her to learn to go to sleep alone results in lots of screaming.... Which disturbs the neighbours. I even took her to the GP out of desperation, who could only suggest letting her stay up until the time she would usually go to sleep.... Which can be 11pm! (On school days we have to be up at 6.45, that cannot be enough sleep!) On occasions that she's gone up to bed close to that time for whatever reason she certainly doesn't just go to sleep, she still takes ages to settle.

I would try putting him to bed just 30 minutes later.

I'm amazed that we are the only 2 suggesting this as it seems so flaming obvious, especially since he is up so early, between 6 and 7 is early in my book

So tonight we have a reprieve and I am glad I came home.

He had his tea, we talked. TV off at 6 and up for a bath. Supper and some reading of stories. Fast asleep by 7.06 and i am relaxed.

I feel so relieved.

Thats great news.

Enjoy your evening

That’s wonderful, hope you’re having a lovely evening! And remember even if this doesn’t last you know that it is possible, so he’ll be able to do it again at some point even if it turns out not to be every night straightaway.

We need to get away from this whole "failure as a parent" mentality if the kid isnt asleep by 7.30.

Being stressed passes on the stress and makes it worse!

However I dont give a crap if the kids are still hanging around me at 9 and I have always been quite relaxed about bedtime. They see their beds as a nice place