Does anyone feel on the outside of friendship groups?

[Faith50]

I have always had this problem and realise I am the problem. I am on the edge in most groups. It is like everyone got the manual and I did not. I struggle with people and do not know why. I am an introvert and always felt I had to compensate for my flat personality.

As a child I was shy and waited to be invited into groups.

As a teenager I was bullied and had three friends throughout the five years. Each friend dumped me to hang out with more interesting peers. At school there were popular girls who everyone ran up to.

In my 20's I felt I was chasing to maintain friendships.

In my 30's and 40's I had very few friendships but they did/do value me.

I feel boring, unlikeable and not exciting enough. My dh finds me funny and entertaining.

This is timely. Just today I saw on Facebook two lots of photos from friends of bank holiday get togethers, neither of which I knew about. I thought I was part of that circle; not central but definitely a part. I knew nothing about either event until I saw the photos. It's ok though. I'd have been hurt when I was younger (like many PPs I found it difficult to fit in as a child, and was shy and awkward) but now I am 50 and don't really care that much. I am lucky I have a couple of other women I count as close friends. We get each other, we support each other, and that's good enough for me.

Now I am older I realise I am not cut out for big friendship groups and am much happier with one or two really good friends.

I don't think I'll bother with that particular group from now on. In the past I would invite them if I'd organised anything, but won't bother in future, and at least now I know where I stand. Onwards and upwards

Nice to know we're not alone 😊💐 Xx

I know what you mean OP and understand how you feel about loneliness Dontgiveamonkeys.
I’m actually quite an extrovert in social situations. But as far as truly deep, meaningful friendships where you really can depend on your friend - I’ve had very few. One over the last 4 years and now she has had to move abroad in very difficult circumstances which has really made me very sad as she is a wonderful friend.

I’ve always felt group politics is difficult, especially if like me you want to just be nice to people and not talk behind people’s back- I’ve always felt like I have wanted to include everyone in any group and have found the more introverted people who might be on the edge very interesting. In my humble experience they are often deep thinkers.

But anyway...if it’s any consolation from someone who is pretty confident socially etc, I have still felt lonely as tbh, quality close friendships are hard to find...

Plus you have to remember that what you see in groups isn’t necessarily what people are thinking - a lot of the behaviour can be a bit fake and secretly there can be a lot of rivalries and unhappiness. I have often chosen to be friends on the outside a bit with several different groups for that reason- so I have the freedom not to be trapped in the politics.

It’s true, I reckon also friendship is a bit like dating as a previous poster said. Finding someone you have stuff in common with is the most important via clubs/courses/hobbies etc and not exhausting yourself trying to make the friendship. If someone is potentially a good friend they will reply and include you and basically respect you. Thoughtless people who don’t reply/consider your feelings are not worth being friends with anyway.

I'm similar to you, op, and to others on this thread, always have been. It was difficult when I was a young person but now it doesn't bother me, I am what I am. People seem to like me well enough, I don't make enemies but am happy in my own company.

As a youngster I didn't know how to behave or what to say and felt self conscious. It was an unpleasant feeling which I remember and feel for those who go through it but, for me, not important any more.

It is nice to know others understand.

I found it hard when I started to come back to normal offer a breakdown , my friends acted like I did this on purpose. Like I would nearly loose my husband house , mind and body to upset them. One wouldn’t even talk to me.
I promise that if anyone came up to me and told me that they disnt want to live anymore or they have struggled I wouldn’t ignore them or tell them they ruined their life. Hugs to all of you xxxxx

I'm never going to be popular as I'm shite at pretending to like people. I recently observed a mum at the school who was only there for a year or so. It was like a masterclass in how to be popular. People fawned over her which was fascinating. She was rich and attractive , but not stunning. She was a bit scatty, rather than scarily over organised. I surmised from that that other women considered her to be someone they may want to be seen with, but not a threat. But the killer ingredient was that she was just really good at faking it. She was always positive and smiley, seemed to like everyone , made you feel like she was your friend. She must have thought some of those people were not for her, her but she never showed it. Perhaps a bit easier to maintain when you live in a country for a year or two before moving on.

Always felt like this, I just don’t do well in groups

I always feel excluded, and looking back objectively it seems that most of the time I hold back when in a group, and exclude myself if that makes sense? It’s like, I don’t feel like I belong in the group, so without realising at the time I start to hover around the edges. Even do it at in laws family occasions when I don’t feel like I belong.

Trying81 I have realised I deliberately exclude myself. I believe it is because I fear being excluded so would rather do it on my own terms. I understand the feeling of ''hovering around the edges'. I am so much better in one to one settings.

I believe people will grow bored of me so make a point of not being in their presence too often. This derives from being dropped by friends at school. Apparantely I was too quiet and a little clingy. I have never been accused of clinginess since then.

Yeah I know exactly what you mean, I overthink things and feel like if I’m the one excluding myself then I’m in control - makes sense in my head anyway

Yet I’m really lonely and don’t have many friends, it’s like a self fulfilling prophecy

I exclude myself as well.its weird isn't it?!

Today was a good example, there was a group of parents we met when DD was 4 (shes now almost 14). I bumped into two sets of the parents today who were having lunch at a cafe round the corner from my house. I could sense their embarrassment that we hadn't been invited and I was a bit 'ouch' about it. But to be fair I have excluded myself in the past. But then again that's because I could write a book of the insults they've traded about each other behind one another backs! I just don't get the politics of it. If all you're going to do is slag each other off the surely you're not friends so why pretend!? But it's the pretending that oils the wheels of relationships. It's all fake basically. Weird. I feel fairly secure that the few friendships I have are not like that , but maybe they are. I don't slag off my friends, but if I don't like the way someone is I just wont consider them a friend . Maybe other people are just more flexible about friends. My son is a bit like that. He openly admits to pretending to like people just to make life easier and he's by far the more successful in terms of friends.

I’m the same. Only in my early thirties but I would say I had more friends at school/college. I find it hard to make friends at all now.

Asperger runs in my family and have wondered if I have it too.

I have a 2yo DS and I thought I would make friends at baby groups etc. But I haven’t made one close mum friend in two years.

I think I also exclude myself, maybe struggle to make the effort, probably appear like a loner. Low confidence socially. No one ever gravitates towards me. People may be friendly and make small talk but it never goes further than that.

I would like some close friends but think I just cant help avoiding social interaction.

Definitely not the quantity but the quality.

I'm an extroverted introvert. I have adhd, I come across as times as loud or bubbly, charismatic and weird if not sometimes eccentric.

I used to think I had a LOT of friends years ago. But the reality was that I knew a lot of people and was capable of closeness with several, but I was never ever part of anyone's circle. I look back and think I was just a hanger on, to many different friend groups.

After various aspects of LIFE happening to me, I've had to learn to be really stringent about who I'm properly friends with. And there's just one or two people here or there, who mostly don't know each other, who I can count as a friend.

I'm lonely too. But I'm also chronically ill and this affects my ability to be round people and work on my friendships.

What I did despise most (now, as I said, it bothers me not) is when you are talking but the person you are talking TOO is looking elsewhere and clearly not interested .

I call that the cocktail party stare. You're talking to someone and they're staring over your shoulder at someone more interesting. It happens a lot on the school run. Last time someone did that to me I quite literally stopped talking mid-consonant and walked off.

I’m definitely similar. An introvert, and at school, always on some bullies radar. I felt when I was younger that no one had explained the rules to me, I didn’t get it. I was severely socially anxious n my teens / 20s. Always worrying about how I came across. That makes it ten times worse, it’s really hard to relax and be yourself. When I became a sahp I became a lot better with people as I was forced to mix more, although sometimes I was still on the edge of things, as you’ve mentioned in your op.

I’m late forties now and iv3 stopped giving a shit. I decided to like myself (I hated myself coz I was shit at the friendship thing). I’ve accepted myself as the product of my childhood and it is truly liberating. Oddly though, it’s made be better socially. 10 years ago if I’d stood in the playground by myself I would have worried that people would think I was a Billy no mates, now I couldn’t give a shit. Although most of the time there’s someone to chat to.

I do a lot of socialising through my local WI and that’s a great place to find meaningful friendships, and I’ve not got quite an active social circle. I still think I struggle to convert acquaintances into friends and I need to work on that.

I’m part of a new social circle they seem to see me as the “wise one”. Dunno where that came from. But it just goes to show that their opinion of my was totally different to the one I had of me.

I could easily have Aspergers, ds2 has just been diagnosed.

Sorry for waffling, it’s late and the insomnia has kicked in tonight. Your thread really resonated with me.

@CloudsCanLookLikeSheep I have found every ‘group’ of more than 4, I have ever been part of, especially professionally & when mainly women, has had a ‘hero’ & a ‘villain’.

It seems to be a group dynamic, one person everyone loves to love & one who everyone loves to hate.

That's so true about the group dynamic set up.

I definitely care less as I get older. I was made to feel very unwelcome by a group of mums about two years ago from my son's primary school. They used to go for a weekly coffee in a local shop and would literally all walk off together in front of me as though I were invisible. I wont bore you with the details, but it soon became apparent that it was about one or two people being territorial.

I knew one of the women from years before and had always kept her at arms length as she was basically very bitchy. She had invited DH and I for dinner about a year beforehand, and to be honest I made a load of shit excuses not to go because I didn't want to be that involved with her. Neither DH and I wanted to spend an evening with her and her dull husband listening about what geniuses her children were followed by her slagging off every person she knows. I suppose someone better suited at social stuff may have just gone along for the evening to get it over with. Anyway, I suspect she didn't like that much as she was a bit of a wannabe queen bee, so perhaps didn't want me in the coffee group as I had slighted her. She told me once the weekly coffee group was by invitation only and she had asked someone if her 'friend' can join but someone else said they couldn't. . I remember feeling like she was basically trying to mark her territory. It was a metaphorical wee on the tree moment.

The other woman was just an odd ball who didn't like anyone else joining this group in case she was usurped. She was known for being childishly possessive of her friends.

In the end I thought, yes the odd coffee would have been nice and it was a horrible feeling at times. I was a SAHM with a child with lots of extra needs and I happened to be free on that day. I remember feeling a bit sorry for myself as I walked home behind them.

But, then I thought, I'm really not missing much. I had joined them once or twice and it was mostly them talking about their children and not so subtle boasting to demonstrate wealth, ie, cleaners, holidays which private school they were looking at etc.

As soon as I stopped caring it was great. Then they all went camping with each other and fell out.

She was always positive and smiley, seemed to like everyone , made you feel like she was your friend. She must have thought some of those people were not for her, her but she never showed it.

Yes to this. I know a few mums who are extremely popular because of this but I struggle to find the energy to be like this despite vowing when dc2 started school that I would be, I just can't find it within me but I think it would have helped dc's social life if not my own if I had.

I also think I exclude myself socially but sometimes weirdly feel left out of things (even though I know I'm not missing much). I go very quiet in group situations usually as if I have an underlying mistrust.

But on the positive side, I have joined a few small groups and hope to join another next year so I am taking steps toward having a better social life. I tend to blame the fact that I don't have much of a social life on the fact that I am very busy (3 dcs including a toddler), it is partially true but I do tend to hide behind this also.

I belong to a craft group. The person whose turn it is to organise it, seems to be basing the date of the next meeting upon when a certain individual can make it, which is a bit irritating (especially because no-one went to these lengths to try and accommodate me). Group dynamics are tricky, I am definitely one of the outside people.
On a plus note, with dc3's year group I am definitely succeeding more at being one of those smiley people whereas dc2's year group I have definitely not succeeded with this. I should have learnt from dc1 really but I did make a lasting friend in dc1's year group. Some of it is down to luck and who is around at the time. I don't have friends who I do very much with (other than attend organised groups), tbh I don't have much spare time but also, I don't actually put enough energy into organising stuff myself.

Nightjar A similar thing happened to me at work. We were trying to arrange lunch with a team member who was leaving. A colleague was desperately trying to include another colleague who they are close to. Most were free on a date I was unavailable. I told them to go ahead without me and they did with absolutely no hesitation. It really did not matter whether I was there or not.

I am the friend who listens to other friends discuss how close they are with others.

I am the friend who is never referred to as 'best friend'.

I have no one friend to call at 1am with bad/sad news.

I should be used to it by now but every now and then it hurts.

@Faith50 I know just how you feel. Always been on the outside of things, felt as though everyone else knew a password that I didn't. I was nearly 50 when I discovered I've been Dyspraxic all my life, highly likely some Aspergic thing going on too. I'm 52 now and I've got used to being on my own and I'm comfortable with myself. But I do miss having someone who checks how I am every now and then. I don't cope well in groups-in my experience they always get taken over by the person with the biggest gob! I don't know what the solution is, really. So much is made of being extrovert and 'outgoing' as if that is the default human. The two most obnoxious people in my uni group were described by a tutor as 'having big personalities!' As if this excused their rude, self-absorbed, attention-seeking twattery! I have become very wary of people as I've got older, gone through a divorce and a massive betrayal of trust by a so-called best friend. I don't feel I have the emotional energy for people's drama these days. I have a sister and grown up children who I see and that's enough most of the time. I would like to feel that someone cared how I was doing though.

Queen Bees and Wannabes by Rosalind Wiseman is a great book about this type of behaviour. It’s about American high school girl cliques but also translates to school gates mums cliques

Thesunis Those who shout loudest certainly get the most attention. I am always amazed that the most self-centred people I have come across always appear to have a trail of friends. Even back at school the "it's all about me" girls had friends galore. I have never been confident enough to believe people want an in depth break down of the most mundane activities in my life.

Queenofwinter I remember watching Mean Girls with Lindsay Lohan. So much pressure to associate with the popular people and be perceived as cool. Though it is an OTT teen film, I found peers at school just as fake, try hard and desperate. Some would isolate, bully, tease others in order to fit in and have control.

Faith Wikipedia cites this book as the inspiration for the Mean Girls film. Reading the book does help you to identify the different types of mean girl and by doing that it helps to make it all feel less personal.