Would you buy a flat that needed total gutting

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If you had three young children?

This is my THIRD thread about this flat - we’re finally in a position to buy and I am very excited, but also very cautious. We live in south east London and though the market is favourable to buyers right now, that doesn’t mean there’s a plethora of amazing ready-to-move-into flats we can afford.

I went to view a flat yesterday in a really lovely - area. It’s right next to our favourite part and because it’s off the main road in an estate, it’s quiet and safe and lots of children actually playing outside together!

It has a ton of potential but needs totally re-doing: kitchen, bathroom, floors and windows. It was lived in for 40 years by an older couple who eventually developed dementia and let it rot a bit.

Realistically we would re-do the bathroom first. The kitchen is mostly functional, just shabby and not great. Probably get new flooring and paint everywhere to freshen it up. Then windows done and then kitchen last.

We have three DC who are 2, 4 and 6. It’s a lot of work to take on when we have no experience of putting in new bathrooms or whatever - I feel very inexperienced. But on the other hand, the potential of it is so good. I think we could knock enough off the price to mitigate the cost of doing it up.

Just interested - what would people do in this situation?

*next to our favourite PARK. Also close to our train station and kids’ pre school/ schools. Location is basically perfect.

I would say yes, go for it. Sounds like it is in a great location. I would just say, be realistic. You may not be able to do everything you want straight away but you will get there

We also live in SE London, I would do it, especially if you are planning to stay for a long time because prices are good for buyers at the moment and presumably because the flat needs work you'll be getting it cheaper, and it means you can put your own stamp on it. It will be hard work but sounds like such a great opportunity for your family. I've lived through some renovations with DD, and we managed, the very basic bathroom only took 3 days to do thankfully. Admittedly that's with one DC not three though!

Having lived in a doer upper I would never do it again. And this was when it was just us.

I would also advise caution when buying a property that has been neglected for a long time, and get a full structural survey done before proceeding. We are selling my late MIL's house. One buyer has already pulled out due to the amount of work it requires. He very kindly sold us his home buyer's report for half of what he paid for It, and the findings on it are scary.

I would, it may be a lot of work but once its done its done and sounds like a great location for your children to grow up in. So pay off would be fab.

I wouldn't because I am hopeless at DIY and hate doing it. But I know people who love DIY and would and have bought similar properties. I think it depends on how interested you are in DIY. Are you experienced or do you have the interest in becoming experienced? How are you going to manage it with the kids? I wouldn't buy it without in-depth and realistic conversations about how you are going to tackle the renovation work.

Yes I would, you can get someone to do the plumbing and you can learn the tiling and the flooring.
Can you keep more back out of your deposit and take more out on the mortgage to give you some cash to do it up?

No. We did a lot of refurb on our flat (and stayed in it) and it was horrible, my stress levels were sky high. And we’re just two adults.

The finishes also tend to be better if you do it in one go rather than piece meal - I regret not doing it that way.

If you can budget to do it before you move in then I’d consider it.

Just going back to my post. The survey picked up woodworm, roof problems, damp rot, potential asbestos in the lino and potential ash used in the cement (this can make the building structurally unsound). To put all of this right would cost £££££ before rewiring/new bathroom and kitchen etc.

I agree with jcurve about stress levels. Also doing a refurb is like opening a Pandora's box so you will need to budget for more than you think.

We have done this, though before kids. I'd do it again, with kids, as long as you're planning to stay a while and can live with the decor/shabby kitchen for a while.

Is the flat leasehold? If so, find out a lot about the lease before you buy it! You may not be able to change the windows - in our flat, the leaseholder would only permit new windows if the whole building went for them, for example. Reasonable enough really, but frustrating for individual flat owners.

I would if I could stay somewhere else whilst the bulk of the work is done.

It's normally cheaper and quicker to get work done when you aren't living there. Can you afford to stay somewhere else (like air b&b) for a couple of weeks or with relatives?

It probably needs new electrics as well so you'll need to do more than just freshen up.

If the survey has no major faults go for it but if you can rent somewhere for a short while when the major work is being carried out would be better. You'll almost certainly need a full rewire so best to get that done before any decorating plus if you've only one toilet and 3 small children and it's out of commission that a major problem.
Better to buy the worst house in a good area than the best house in a bad area

I’ve done 4 renovations. If you can get the flat for a good price baring in mind it’s condition and there is profit to be made (after the cost to renovate) then do it!

I want to find another project to do! Just love making my own make on a property and getting it exactly how you want it plus making money and climbing the property ladder.

Good luck!

*mark

I live in NE London, I brought a flat that was a wreck as after doing it up it’s still cheaper than buying one in a good state in the same block.

I moved in in April, so far I have had the kitchen done, the bathroom is next. It was all livable, just very very grotty and didn’t function well.

What's the lease situation? Be aware of leases under 80 years as they're expensive to renew.

Be aware that in my experience renovation work that is inconvenient and stressful in a house is even worse in a flat. I don’t know if it’s the fact that nothing can spill outside, all of the mess has to be kept inside. We’re at the tail end of having our kitchen done, and it’s been pretty awful.

Yes I’d love to do that

We bought an Edwardian house that was in a similar state and gutted the place. Other than the staircase we went back to brick and put in new kitchen, bathroom, electrics, plumbing etc.

We are not DIYers and the majority of work was done via a builder and other tradesman. We had a decent buffer of savings to get the majority of the work done in 6 months.

As another poster said above, it's vital you have a decent structural survey done. In our case the house was structurally sound and other than updating the damp proof course, there were no major issues, roof was in a good state etc.

I'd also be aware of how lenders often put 'retainers' on mortgages. In our case they held back £6k of the mortgage until we'd done the damp proof, electrics (and something else I can't remember). That meant we needed to temporarily stump up the additional amount to purchase the property, then got it back at a later point when we'd proved we'd got the works complete.

It's a bit complicated to explain on here but worth looking into separately. It's less of an issue if you have a lot of equity/deposit, but if you don't the bank ultimately wants you to stump up cash to make sure their money is protected.

So, to summarise, there are great benefits of getting a flat like this. In our case, we've ended up with a house furnished exactly as we want, and also as the work has been all done by us, we know jobs have been done properly. Still, I'd suggest you need a decent bit of cash to get some of the improvements done, and be aware of extra costs coming out in the process too.

Good luck x

We bought our current house when it was in an awful state and we had to move in. Almost three years on and it's the best thing we ever did. It was an amazing location for us and price wise it was in our budget so we felt it was worth it. We are useless at diy as well so needed to get people to do any work needing doing. We had to get a kitchen asap as it the kitchen was in an awful state. The bathroom still needs doing but it was grotty and a good clean and some paint helped improve it. We are hoping to do the bathroom next year. We are near the children's school and my husbands work and on excellent public transport routes so having an easier day to day life makes it worth living here.

Yes we've done the same.

We did this, albeit with a house in a less expensive area than London. Your choices are:

• Do it quickly with tradesmen, budget for 20% extra than you think you need and don't contemplate moving in until done. It's a lot easier to fit and refurbish an empty place. It will be stressful, but over quickly.

-Do it slowly around the family. We went down this route as we did not want to accrue extra debt and had no family nearby to stay with. It also helps that DH is a DIY enthusiast, who plays to his strengths. So, we saved thousands by fitting out own kitchen, but got professionals in to do the windows and lay the floorboards (life is too bloody short to deal with skirting boards if you don't have the right tools)

As others have said, carefully check the lease and ground rents and get a full survey, so there are no surprises.