Learning a language fluently-what works

[Whattodowithaminute]

We are just back from a lovely holiday in France and I’m now committed to learning French fluently. I have rusty gcse knowledge but really want to step up-what works? Im registered with duolingo to get started, do I need to go to classes? Read the paper/podcasts/watch tv...?!!

Go to classes for the grammar. Duolingo helps you drill it and takes it from knowing in theory how it works to being able to say it right first time.

Have a look at the Common European Framework for Languages - whether you want to do exams or not, it's useful to know where you are in your language skill. B2 is a useful level to get to - at that point you can read the paper and watch TV fairly painlessly and that will bring on your language a lot. I found that before that it was just frustrating, although I am a bit of a miseryguts, so you know...

‘Fluently’ is tricky unless you’re immersed in it. SIL has lived in Spain for 10 years, has a Spanish partner who doesn’t speak any English and is fluent, but still encounters words/grammatical rules she’s not familiar with.
I lived in France for a year, studied French a-level and university (got a first) and never considered myself fluent!

Take a French lover, obviously ;-)

Listen to the news in simple French on RFI (French international radio).

Pimsleur is very good, it's like learning your mother tongue with lots of little chunks of repetition and real situations to respond to.

Find content that you are interested in.

The internet can provide so much. I quite like Comme une Francaise on Youtube.

I spent years doing Spanish lessons but living there for a year made a HUGE difference. Noone was bothered about me getting the grammar perfect, and it increased my fluency/ understanding of local language. I would strongly recommend doing a conversation exchange (not a paid for lesson) with a native speaker. There are often au pairs/ students/ people that have moved over here to learn English that would be interested in this. You meet up once a week and either split the session half in each language, or alternate each week.

There are lots of ways to become competent, most of which have been listed but honestly fluency hinges on interaction and exposure. You need to ideally be around fluent speakers and regularly conversing with them. So much easier when young because you can do a gap year wherever it is and that's how I became fluent. DP did a language degree and speaks a few but unless you use them regularly you do really lose it.

If you can't spend time in the place try to find a group on meetup? There are lots of language learner 'conversation french" etc groups that would be great, and you might meet some people you like! From a comprehension side of things watch lots of french tv/film, read in french, sounds silly but start with children's books or books you're familiar with and work your way up.

To speak and comprehend fluently you do need interaction though IMO. I'd maybe bear in mind that you don't need to be fluent to move to France- intermediate would do fine and the fluency would come.

I arrived in France 13 years ago with level B1 French. However, being older doesn't help as you don't have the muscular flexibility to make some of the sounds.

DD was just 9 when we arrived and when she worked at Burger King in Toulouse and served some ono-French speaking Brits on holiday, her colleagues were shocked to learn she was English. To them, she was French.

Otoh, I can't roll my 'r's for the life of me and get pissed off when I'm complimented on my 'charming' English accent.

If I'm really bunged up with a cold, it does take longer for people to realise that I'm English, though. Doesn't help that I live in area where pain is pang, vin is ving and viande is pronounced vi-ande not viarnde.

@SoyDora is so right. I've heard so many people say things like 6 weeks in an English school and kids go from zero to fluent, or I spent 6 months in France and could speak it fluently. I spent 10 years abroad, had lots of local friends who I spoke their language with, did lots of activities in the local language etc and still struggled to call myself fluent because there would always be words I didn't know.

Fluent just means you can continue and use the local word for thingymajig.

MyOtherProfile SoyDora But there are words in the English language that I don't know and i'm native! With 3 degrees! I was part of the generation who weren't taught much grammar so my knowledge of that isn't the best either. So I can't say that being fluent means knowing all the words. Nor can it mean speaking a language flawlessly.

I give myself a much harder time about the accuracy and proficiency of Spanish than I do of English but when I pay attention, I notice LOADS of moments in English where I can't think of the right word, make grammatical errors, spelling mistakes, don't know words, make silly mistakes. But I barely notice them because it's my language and i'm good enough at it/ better than most even, so it doesn't bother me. When I was doing a masters degree, a course mate of mine was Polish and she wouldn't accept that she was fluent in English. If doing (and passing) a degree isn't fluent then neither are many many natives.

Remember that the Sun newspaper is written for an average reading age of 7 years.

I am rubbish at languages but have recently started rewatching films I know well in French to help me remember everything I learned and forgot from gcse and have bought simple learning books to go through with the kids. That way I can try to work the language into our everyday life. I am not aiming for fluency just the ability to communicate when we go there on holiday. I think some of the tips here are great.

But there are words in the English language that I don't know and i'm native

Yes of course, but it depends on what level of words doesn't it?

I guess fluent just sounds like native speaker to me. I did get what a pp said, about being taken for a native speaker with a different accent, and yet I always thought they were a bit optimistic!

but if you watch programmes like 'who wants to be a millionaire' 'weakest link' 'the chase' in another language you usually notice that a lot of vocabulary/idioms come from childhood and that's where non native speakers stumnlr

Once you have a basic level from something like Duolingo reading and watching stuff once the language really helps. Like others have said watch French shows (C4 Walter Presents, Netflix etc) with the subtitles on. Get hold of a favourite book that you “know” and read it in French. If you have a kindle then you can download the French English dictionary to help. Also something like Zinio will let you download foreign magazines onto your iPad (at relatively low cost)
Above all have confidence in speaking the language whenever you get the chance. Don’t get hung up on fear of grammar errors and mispronunciations - think about a non native English speaker with an accent. You would still be able to understand them if they said eg. “We have gonded to London on Friday”. You could reply to them and say “that’s nice what did you do” and they could reply and say “we was going to see the Buckingham Palace” you will be able to have conversations with sympathetic listeners more easily than you think. Once you can do that then that is when you really start to fly with the conversational fluency.

In the same way when reading/watching. Don’t get hung up on every single word and the grammatical nuances. Aim for the gist of what is happening. You will start to absorb more and more without realising it.

Although watching English language films with translation is quite misleading, there are so many things that are said which don’t translate directly, and a different set of words with the same approximate meaning are written.

1:1 tutor is really good if you get a good one. I had one for a few years and did OU. Can do it via Skype now. And Meetup groups. But it's all easily forgotten is you don't practice.

I wouldn't consider fluent to equal sounding like a native speaker. Think of all the people you know in the UK who are not mother-tongue English - it's obvious and their English might still not be that accurate. But you can understand them.

I do think immersion is the only way and having a go. It's picking up all the "Ah, they use that word for that" moments. I'm not remotely fluent, btw 😁 just know the theory.

I know a lot of words and my accent is really pretty good (I'm a good mimic) but I'm really slow at processing replies and remembering tense constructions.

I'm going to treat myself to a week or two with a host family one day to get better.

Be realistic about what fluency means. I am fluent in Italian but people still know I'm not native if I speak for longer than 30 seconds.

Is there a Mumsnet type forum in French?
I'd quite like to join too. I think switching to French social networks would help to learn colloquial language

There's doctissimo and magicmaman, but they're shit compared to MN!

yes SwedishEdith being able to mimic is really useful, if you hear the little ‘tics’ of the spoken language it really helps!

@NavyBerry there's aufeminin but again not quite mumsnet

Is there a language cafe near you? We have one where you can practise with native speakers. It is free - as long as you buy drinks and cake.

I've just had a look at aufeminin and immediately I have a word of caution. Some of the French on there is appalling! There are loads of grammar faults and spelling mistakes so while it can help learn the flow of French it might not be helpful for grammar and spelling!

You really need to be around someone who speaks the langauge, my first language is Urdu, I started learning English as an eight year old so I speak English with a Nottinghamshire accent, but there are still a lot of things I don’t know.

I recently learned that a knife with teeth is actually serated, I also really struggle with colloquialisms.