State pension age to increase to 75 WTF??

[mrselizabethdarcy]

Just seen this article. I'm so worried about the future.
www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-raise-state-pension-age-18953679

And lets be clear, this will not affect the well off. They will still retire at an earlier age if they want to. If they are lucky to have good health and enjoy their work they will carry on, but they will have the choice. This will affect lower paid workers many of whom do work that is not easy to do when you are older, and who are also statistically more likely to have poor health.

When the state pension began, life expectancy post retirement was 3 years.
It was affordable for the working population to contribute enough in national insurance and tax to pay the older generation of pensioners.
Now we have a double whammy - life expectancy post retirement is nearly 20 years, and the proportion of pensioners to workers is much higher.
Obviously, something has to give. We either need a massive budget increase, by cutting services elsewhere, or people will have to retire later, or we will have to take out private pensions.
Personally I think we should means test the state pension, so it’s just a safety net for the low paid who need it. A retired company director really wouldn’t miss a measly few hundred a month.

You don't get it do you. Some older people work part-time to top up their finances. But without a state pension a lot of people will have to work full-time.

Yes and my point is that they’ll not be doing that in their career job. They’ll be doing it in other kinds of jobs.

The change is already happening with the part time roles because people who would have retired need to keep working, that’s going to be more and more common as people have to work longer.

@Babdoc well, if someone is working and contributing to their own NI including future state pension, then the ratio of workers to pensioners should be irrelevant. But yes, life expectancy vs amount of contributions is the issue here.

The change is already happening with the part time roles because people who would have retired need to keep working, that’s going to be more and more common as people have to work longer.

I would hope more people will have work/ private pensions from early on.

I would hope more people will have work/ private pensions from early on.

They’ll end up making the same changes eventually. Or at least getting closer to state pension age. It won’t be financially feasible for them to keep paying out at 50 either.

And if they do people are likely to work part time on top as well, especially as the age of home owning goes up

If you don't want this to happen then I think the answer is more than voting - it's striking too. If all public sector workers (for example) withdraw their labour, and for a long time, not just a day at a time, then the government would have to rethink.

Fwiw, I agree there are all sorts of problems with this proposal. A lot of businesses won't like it if they end up having to force out older workers on incapacity. There will be many people aged 70+ who will be claiming benefits of some kind as they aren't able to work/find work - and administration of this will be be complex and costly. It will massively hit the young in terms of stopping them getting entry level/part time jobs and increase youth unemployment.

I think ultimately something will have to change but I think it's more likely that it will be something like the state pension becoming based on capacity, not just age or becoming means tested (both of which would also be expensive and unpopular too.

But the trouble is for most people now paying into their work pension they will be unable to draw it until the state retirement age, whatever that might be. Up to now most people paying into schemes have had their work pension paying out from 60 so they could manage the gap to their state retirement pension paying out at between 60 and 66.

I am one of the women affected by the double rise in the pension age from 60 to 65 then to 66. Like all the women affected I had planned on it being 60. Thankfully my workplace pension was payable from 60 so I was still able to retire and bridge the gap of those 6 years but that facility wasn't available to a lot of the women affected and won't be available to most people going forward unless they are retiring due to ill health where schemes still allow you to receive your pension earlier.
This alignment of private pensions to the ever increasing state retirement age will only add to the problems.

I think there needs to a multi generational approach, the burden cannot be on the young particularly as they are likely to not have the wealth of previous generations.

Not sure how that will happen when you look at the ridiculous outcry over the means tested BBC license fee.

My point is working part time to top up your pension is very different to working full time to earn a living. Our local newsagent has an older looking man who works a few mornings a week. I don't know him, but that may give him enough money to do fun things. But he probably works about 8 hours, and does non physical tasks - he works at the till.
If you work full time it is very different. And if you don't have the state pension then lots of people will have to work full-time. Do you really think most people are capable of working full-time at 74?

Do people not understand that a think tank can say what the hell they want and it won’t just become government policy?

Yes I understand that. But this still scares the hell out of me.

I don’t really why the patronising tone. I haven’t disagreed with you at any stage. I am aware of the difference between full time and part time work.

My point is that this change has already started. The people who ‘should’ be retired but need to top up their pension are now doing so, and in jobs that would often be taken by young people and women going back to work after children/working around childcare.

That is going to extend into people working full time in roles that would so far be filled by young people and women (so called unskilled work like light retail and non manual jobs). Women and young people are going to be disproportionately affect by the changes.

People won’t have any choice, but to work at 74 if they have no pension. Many many people could do a job at 74. The mindset that will have to change if these changes go ahead is the “I couldn’t do my job therefore I will have to be retired”. We will, I think, get more and more people who have to say “I can’t do my job at this age so I’m going to have to change to a job”

Do people not understand that a think tank can say what the hell they want and it won’t just become government policy?

The government listened to this think tank for UC

Excuse my poor typing. Typing one handed as have a sleeping toddler on my arm (she slept for 45 mins last night so I darent move!)

I have just read the article about pensioners picking fruit.

I'm not often speechless, but....but......

Not surprised. It will slowly be moved to that, gradually, anyway, so what's the point in complaining?

I think you are wrong. Many people can not work full time at 74 and many employers would not employ them.
Changing jobs already happens in lower paid people in their fifties. I suspect you have not done the jobs you are advising people can do full time at 74. Most office jobs that I have had in the private sector are not cushy, lots of deadlines and lots to achieve. You have to be able to deliver at a pace that a 25 year old can to keep your job. And retail is not an easy job either. And lets be honest, why would an employer employ a 70 year old full time to work in a supermarket who has never done that work over a 35 year old who has always worked in that role?
And this will not affect better off people. Anyone better off still working full-time at 74 will be doing so because they want to. It would affect people like me. I do one of those jobs you are saying people should chance careers to. I could not keep up the pace at 74 full-time, I struggle at my age at times and find it much harder than when I was younger to keep up the pace.

Fruit picking to earn a living is hard work. I did it when younger. Pensioners doing it now will be doing it too slow to earn a living, they are playing at it.

It is interesting looking at retirement ages in other countries. Many have a lower retirement age than the UK. The only country with a higher retirement age is Libya at 70.
The Government wants to make this country a third world country.

I suspect you have not done the jobs you are advising people can do full time at 74. Most office jobs that I have had in the private sector are not cushy, lots of deadlines and lots to achieve. You have to be able to deliver at a pace that a 25 year old can to keep your job. And retail is not an easy job either. And lets be honest, why would an employer employ a 70 year old full time to work in a supermarket who has never done that work over a 35 year old who has always worked in that role?

I never mentioned specific jobs, other than the seasonal ones (as an example of one area where changes have already happened because of some people of retirement age needing top ups) and my grandfather’s job delivering cars (drive car to delivery address, get train back).

I specifically said easy retail - like your mention of working a till in a small shop -rather than just retail.

I didn’t say that anyone should have to do this. I’m saying I think people will have to do this. There’s a massive difference. I’m also one of the people who will be affected by these changes so I’ve no idea why you keep taking such a patronising tone when you know sod all about me or my work history.

People will have to work if there is no pension for them to have. Thankfully many 74 year olds will be able, physically, to work full time in different sectors. It’s shit they’ll have too, but if there’s no pension they’ll have no choice

Also regarding my point about women and young people I do think it will hit them harder than men.

If a uni student can work full time but only round their course hours, but a 70 year old can work full time without needing any considerations then, as long as the older applicant, can do the job as well they’ll be the option.

Discrimination against women of child bearing age already exists. If there’s a 68-year-old physically fit and capable man and a woman with two or three kids looking to get back to work then that’s a job rival she wouldn’t have had a few years ago.

I can see a lot of elderly looking after family children etc and families then supporting them financially.

I really hope I've been a good enough parent that my DC will like and love me enough to make sure my twilight years aren't miserable...

@lyrala Working part time in a till in a small shop is easy work. But jobs like that full-time rarely exist. The staff member there full time does shelf stacking, takes in deliveries, stock taking, etc. Physical jobs as well as working the till. Most full-time jobs are not cushy, that is my point. Getting someone to take a very small number of hours at times the shop is busier, is hard. So I suspect they are happy to get someone reliable who can only do the easy part of the jobs but will work busier times.

Yes some people are already working full time beyond retirement age. I know someone like this. She is late sixties and with absolutely no health problems at all. She looks about 15 years younger than she is. She is also in an office job in the public sector that is cushier than many jobs now created today. But she is the exception amongst my friends. And most of my friends are very sporty.

Interesting you mention driving jobs. This is something I see some manual people going into when they are too old to do manual work. Although a lot of driving is still physical and involves loading and unloading. But delivering cars is easy work. There are a few jobs around like this, but not many. Certainly not enough to employ everyone till 75 full-time.

And as I said anyone fruit picking at 70 plus is playing at it. Bit of a hobby to make pocket money. Fruit picking is very hard work and you have to work very hard to make a proper living at it.

How many physically fit 70 year olds do you know? Sure they exist but they are not the norm. I am in my fifties and most friends are sporty and slightly older than me. I have already seen friends getting cancer, having a heart attack, developing arthritis, getting knee issues and back issues, and chronic health problems having more impact. There are some that have no health problems or physical limitations at all, but most do.

And the truth is you do get tireder as you get older. Things do get harder.