Can a small child visit their mother in prison?

[countherout]

I've always wondered but Google doesn't seem to offer much info. I now have a friend who could be facing the prospect of a sentence and I'm extremely sad for her.

I say a small child because I think it could possibly be extremely upsetting. There's a no touching rule, isn't there? Can you imagine if a mother is in there for a non violent crime and can't even touch their baby/toddler?

What about breastfeeding? If children are allowed to touch their mum in prison, would they be allowed to continue breastfeeding if they visit a few times a week? I'm sure most would opt to stop feeding but is it possible?

Prisoners with children under 18 months can apply to to have the child in prison with them

www.gov.uk/life-in-prison/pregnancy-and-childcare-in-prison

There's a no touching rule, isn't there? Can you imagine if a mother is in there for a non violent crime and can't even touch their baby/toddler?

You watch too many telly dramas.

How do you expect someone to breast feed now and again? You also have no idea where she may be sent - it could be at the other end of the country. They cant visit 'a few times a week', monthly maybe.

IAsk No, I genuinely didn't think you could touch. Not because of telly, just in general.

And that's children under 18 months. What if you are feeding a child 18 months +? Would they be forced to stop immediately or could special arrangements be made so the mother and child can continue their breastfeeding relationship?

No, special arrangements will not be made for breastfeeding mothers.

Yes, children can visit their parents in prison, but a mother and baby unit if they qualify might be preferable.

Very young children don't really understand the environment that they are in so won't be traumatised/remember being in a prison.

If the children live out and are taken in for visits they will need to be searched, including nappy changes etc because some unscrupulous people would think nothing of hiding drugs, phones or other contraband in a nappy.

I think they also have video links for parents in prison to keep in touch with their DC on the outside even to the extent of bedtime stories etc.

(I have been in a lot of prisons in a professional capacity so have observed a lot of what goes on).

Im not intending to be obtuse, but BFing an 18+ month child? The child wouldnt be EBF at that age.

You might want to look here - its a charity supporting mothers in prison

www.bestbeginnings.org.uk/mothers-in-prison

Im going to be nosey - going back to your OP - why would you expect a custodial sentance for a non violent crime?

Lots of family work in prison service in healthcare and as prison officers ...

No, you wouldn’t be able to breast feed unless the child was going to live with the mother in a mother and baby unit - very short in supply .

Visits don’t tend to happen all that often - local prison to me takes prisoners from all over the country .

Not sure about a no touching rule . I know local prison does separate visits specifically for families that are done very differently , staffed by both prison service staff and volunteers and the onus is placed on it being a safe, non threatening and beneficial experience for the child, but I’ve no idea if that includes no touching . I don’t imagine it does but not 100% sure .

Prison visits for children and their mothers are very different to what you've read/is portrayed.

The prison that I attend regularly have a very relaxed policy between children and their mothers. They are allowed to touch, hug and play with each other. They do monthly mum sessions and these are specifically designed with keeping the children occupied and having toys to play with.

They also allow other visiting sessions, but these will be more sitting around a table type visits.

Type and length of visits depend on the individual prison (and whether it is publicly or privately owned as they have different rules). Also depends on the location of the mum, as they can move her to whichever prison has space.

If her child is a toddler she may not be eligible for a baby led unit, but hopefully her legal counsel will be pushing for a suspended sentence as opposed to an immediate custodial sentence (if appropriate in the circumstances and within sentencing guidelines).

Im going to be nosey - going back to your OP - why would you expect a custodial sentance for a non violent crime?

I genuinely do not wish to sound rude but there are many crimes you could get a slap of a sentence for without it being a violent crime in any way.

Also the child may not be EBF but their BF relationship is still of great importance. I'm sure lots of people don't really but into that but even so, you have to admit that sudden cold stopping of breastfeeding is upsetting for a lot of children and is why cold and hard weaning is never advised unless medically necessary.

If a mother is expecting a custodial sentence for a non violent offence then she should prepare to stop breastfeeding in advance.

Very few women are arrested and remanded for non violent offences which would obviously be without advance warning.

Perhaps the mother should have thought of that before committing a crime.

If her child is a toddler she may not be eligible for a baby led unit, but hopefully her legal counsel will be pushing for a suspended sentence as opposed to an immediate custodial sentence (if appropriate in the circumstances and within sentencing guidelines).

I'm a complete novice with regards to the law but wouldn't she have to plea guilty for this to already be planned by her legal counsel? For example, if she's been pleading not guilty and the judge decided otherwise and then gives his sentence, are you saying the legal team could then step in and suggest a suspended sentence since she's been found guilty?

I hope that makes sense

NoCause Yeah yeah, I'm sure you're right. However, let's not forget this doesn't just impact the mother

I should think it's unlikely they'd take the breastfeeding into account at 18 months I'm afraid. Mothers who have to go into rehab also have to immediately stop breastfeeding. I knew a woman who had to stop cold turkey because of rehab, it haunts here even now.

Dam But wouldn't that be medically necessary anyway? If the mother has an addiction, unless it's alcohol... of which doesn't actually impact BM all that much at all

It was alcohol.

My friend worked in a creche in a womens prison they had a visiting room for young children under 7 (i think) where they kids could visit their mothers nappies and buggies were checked beforehand,

you have to admit that sudden cold stopping of breastfeeding is upsetting for a lot of children

Yes, but in this situation; it's likely be the sudden removal of their mother that will be upsetting for the child. And breastfeeding tends to cease as a consequence of that; and because it can't be regular due to visiting. I spent six months working with a women's prison as part of my degree, there were few women who hadn't stopped breastfeeding once they knew that they were facing a custodial sentence thankfully, but those that did, it tended to just stop cold. For some of the women, their children didn't visit for months, both because the mother was "settling" and because the child was distraught at the mother not being there and it would be emotionally damaging to the child for them to see mum and then mum to be taken away again.

I would absolutely advise anyone who breastfeeds and is facing the realistic prospect of a jail sentence to wean themselves, so that it's not cold turkey and so that the child has less to cope with if they are sentenced.

I genuinely do not wish to sound rude but there are many crimes you could get a slap of a sentence for without it being a violent crime in any way.

True, but Im hard pressed to think of something (non violent) that woudl invoke a custodial sentance for BFing mother - upper end of fraud/theft/money laundering/drug running is all I can can come up with.

I don't think they are allowed to visit a few times a week once they are sentenced maybe your friend should stop feeding in preperation

There's lots of people/women in prison for fraud/theft/money laundering, handling stolen goods type offences, benefit fraud, non payment of TV licence or council tax and not necessarily 'upper end'.

You only have to read Vicky Pryce's book about being in prison, to see examples of people being in prison for seemingly innocent mistakes.

Just look at how many people on here would admit to taking speeding points for their DH if loss of his licence would threaten his employment, and see it as a little white lie rather than a crime worthy of a custodial sentence. Because that's what's VP did and she got 8 months inside for it.

Why do people still think that pre-verbal children don't have any memory of what happens to them?

Has anyone said they don’t? I missed it if they did.

Nobody said anything like that Footle I am unsure what you are on about

If that comment is directed at me, what I meant was obviously very young children don't understand what a prison is, why people are there or what they have done.

The mother and baby units are very much like being in a family setting, or a hospital or nursery and the process of going through prison security on a visit is very much like going through airport security, so while they might remember it, going to see a parent in prison is no less appropriate than going through airport security, they don't come out traumatised due to all the 'bad people' because they don't know that some of the people are 'bad' and when you read about why some of the people are there, most people probably wouldn't necessarily think they are 'bad' and certainly not scary to DC. It's not all child killers and arsonists in prison, far from it.