Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Does everyone go to University now?

58 replies

Newearringsplease · 03/08/2019 00:06

Now perhaps I'm getting on but when I was at school university was for the really clever kids, those who were going to be doctors, vets, lawyers and teachers. Now it seems every one goes, what's changed?

OP posts:
ChangesAt30 · 03/08/2019 08:28

I'm 30, and when I attended college we were all getting pushed to apply for Uni! Being told it was the only way we'd get a job and get on in life Hmm

I'm now considering starting an apprenticeship because my degree hasn't gotten me anywhere. The ironic thing is that I'm in two minds whether or not to do it because 12 years ago it was drummed into me that apprenticeships were for the less intelligent/those who couldn't get into uni (I don't mean to offend anyone, that's just what I was told), so it feels like a step down. Although now I'm wondering whether I should've done it in the first place as I could have probably been further up the career ladder than I am now, without the debt Grin

yikesanddang · 03/08/2019 08:30

It wasn't that only the clever went to uni. Millions of very clever but working class people didn't go to uni because it was seen as elite. It held people back in society. If you honestly believe it was only the clever then you lived in delusion. Clever young people from poorer backgrounds would go into a trade because people 'like them' didn't go to uni. It wasn't for people 'like them'. Thank goodness things have moved in a bit since then.

SimplySteveRedux · 03/08/2019 08:33

Education opens doors. And minds.

And as I read recently, "those who lead, read".

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Children's health General education General health Higher education
AlwaysCheddar · 03/08/2019 08:35

Fewer people go now because they are saddled with ££££££ debt!

SimplySteveRedux · 03/08/2019 08:36

Millions of very clever but working class people didn't go to uni because it was seen as elite. It held people back in society. If you honestly believe it was only the clever then you lived in delusion. Clever young people from poorer backgrounds would go into a trade because people 'like them' didn't go to uni. It wasn't for people 'like them'.

Great post.

Aragog · 03/08/2019 08:37

It was never really only the very clever.
It was mainly the well off, the middle and upper classes.
Then it was encouraged for more people. I went in the early 90s and was the first in my family to go to university. I'm no cleverer than my parents but it just wasn't available to all in the same way.

Now more and more jobs require a degree of high education qualifications. There are fewer jobs available straight from school. Apprenticeships are harder to get on to.

Tbh I can't see having a more educated population is such a bad thing overall.

And for many the university years are a great way to ease between school and work.

Benes · 03/08/2019 08:40

alwayscheddar not true. The introduction of higher fees hasn't had a huge impact on numbers applying to HE. There are lower numbers presently but that's because we're in the middle of a demographic dip and there are fewer 18 year olds around.

Aragog · 03/08/2019 08:42

And it really hasn't dumbed down. Just like GCSE and A levels haven't been dumbed down either.

The initial universities were for the idle well off males, not necessarily clever. They just need to do something and occupy themselves.

Now university is available for a much wider variety of subjects, and as such more people get to go and experience university life and gain a wider range of qualifications in a wider range of subject areas. Not all are straight 'classic' subjects but it doesn't mean those others are worthless either. There are several benefits of being able to study to a higher level.

I hate that when things change, and become more widely available, and bother students and teachers become better at what they're doing (often due to greater experience and exposure) it's automatically criticised and claimed by those older as 'not as good as when we did it.'

lljkk · 03/08/2019 08:48

I know lots & lots (& lots) of young people who don't go. Probably depends what social circles you move in.

Aragog · 03/08/2019 08:48

We do need to rethink how the fees and grants are spoken about though. It sounds dreadful when you look at them initially but the reality is most students will never pay those debts off in full.

Dd is hoping to do a teaching degree and go into teaching. Having listened to the fiancé talks and discussed it with our IFA we will not pay her tuition fees up front, but let her take out the fee loans and any grant she's entitled too, then top up. As a teacher it is very unlikely she will ever pay back her loans in full. I don't have the numbers to hand but it's unlikely she'd pay back half. And it would come out of her wage at a pretty low rate.

After going to such talks more of DD's friends, some from lower income families, are realistically looking at university after initially assuming they couldn't afford it.

We currently have a system which is similar to a graduate tax. For various reasons it isn't officially, but the reality is it is more like one than not.

Aragog · 03/08/2019 08:49

And yes, numbers are currently lower and will be for the next couple of years or so, primarily as there are some lower birth rate years coming through.

RubberTreePlant · 03/08/2019 08:51

Have you just emerged from cryogenic stasis OP?

Blair's 50% target was news for years.

ZisforZ · 03/08/2019 08:56

Our digital economy needs reasonably well educated people. Studying is not just for the top 10%.

MollyHuaCha · 03/08/2019 08:58

It's great that university has lost its 'only for the elite' status.

It's not so great that the current loan/graduate tax system puts people off.

And the lack of grants mean there are students who receive just £4K loan for living expenses when their halls of residence rent costs £6.5k.

They also need money for food, books, travel.

No one is explicitly telling their parents they are supposed to make up the shortfall.

Foxyloxy1plus1 · 03/08/2019 09:10

I was (am) working class. My dad was an engineer and my mum a book keeper. There was never a suggestion that I wouldn’t be able to go to university because of it.

Original poster
Newearringsplease · 03/08/2019 09:14

RubberTreePlant no it's just that I've never given university any thought before, now all my friends grand children seem to be going

OP posts:
BogglesGoggles · 03/08/2019 09:23

Everyone I went to school with went to university. Many dropped out and many haven’t used their degrees or are in jobs that actually really don’t need a degree (if it weren’t for employer preference). I think it’s absurd, not least of all because undergraduate degrees have been dumbed down to the point of meaningless. I’m part way through a law degree at a Russel group. I literally didn’t watch a single lecture in my first year. A couple of subjects I didn’t even buy the text book and ‘studied’ using those rubbish revision books the day before the exam and still got a 2:2 in those subjects. 2:1/1st can easily be achieved with a week of cramming. It’s easier than high school. An undergraduate degree is not an education.

AwkwardPaws27 · 03/08/2019 09:26

I didn't achieve a degree at the "normal" age but went straight to work instead (silly me - my fees would have only been £3k a year). In my mid-20s I hit a ceiling - I worked in admin and I couldn't get interviews for an admin job in London paying more than £22k as they all wanted graduates. I studied my degree around full-time work, and after 4 years I have just been awarded a first class honours degree. Now everyone wants apprentices Confused and I would really need an (expensive) masters degree to stand out from the crowd.
Last year, I was working alongside a graduate who was doing a level 2 customer service apprenticeship in order to get a foot in the door. The role would have been a one year graduate trainee position a few years ago.
It feels like I can't win - I felt like a failure compared to my peer group for not having a degree, I struggled to break through the graduate ceiling, and now I have finally achieved it the focus has shifted.

Kez200 · 03/08/2019 09:43

People forget when 10 percent went to University, another significant proportion went to Polytechnic, and those Polys are now Unis. Poly courses became degrees, which wasnt and isnt necessary, but the two year courses were often very worthwhile and still would be.

NoWayDidISayThat · 03/08/2019 10:09

I did a professional diploma when I left school. If I did it now it would be a degree. It's just a different name. I don't get the problem.

There is a problem with degree classifications being dumbed down though. The ridiculous rise in first being given out is crazy. Student satisfaction rankings are helpful in some ways but damaging in others.

lljkk · 03/08/2019 10:15

It's very controversial that Singapore deliberately won't let > 40% of people go to university.

woodhill · 03/08/2019 10:15

Yes it kept the unemployment figures down

titchy · 03/08/2019 10:16

Don't forget teaching wasn't a graduate profession in the 70s, neither was nursing in the 80s. Both are (by design - to artificially inflate the number of women going to university) so you can't really compare the position now to then.

woodhill · 03/08/2019 10:18

Yes you could go to teacher training college in the 50s and nursing college at 16

woodhill · 03/08/2019 10:20

DF went to university in the 50s from a poor background