In a dilemma with DD (12) How much freedom to give in these circumstances?..

[margaritaontherocks]

Hi,

I'm really not sure what to do. This will be difficult to explain, so bear with...

DD has mild undiagnosed SN. Her difficulties have mainly been with her social skills and because of this, she has really struggled to make friends. Actually, she never really had any in primary, but since starting high school, she's started to find 'her people' and now seems to have a nice mixture of friends, which is obviously absolutely fantastic! And tbh, not what we were expecting at all, so a very nice surprise.

However, she is still behind in her social development and has recently started asking me for more freedom. I get this- she's 12 and of course she wants to go into town with friends without me looming in the background, but because she's never had the opportunity to do this with friends before, I'm so anxious about it and just don't feel she's mature enough. A real catch 22, as how will she develop those skills unless she gets out there and experiences life with more freedom?

The problem is, she's very naive and is almost desperate to maintain these friendships and sometimes worries me how quick she is to please them.

I tried giving her more independence when she wasn't doing the "norm" with going round to friends houses etc, but she always really struggled to do basic things, like go into the shops with a small list of items to find and pay for. She'd freeze and forget what to do. That said, she does sometimes surprise me with her maturity and resilience.

She gets angry with me sometimes (understandable) and says that all her friends go out on their own and have done for years, which is probably true, but I strongly suspect most of them have grown up together and she's never had this. I always tried to help her keep friendships going when she was little, but they never went anywhere and would often fizzle out after a few weeks.

I know I can't lock her away and I keep her in a bubble, but what do you do when you just don't feel as though they could handle themselves?

Please, can anyone offer any advice on how to handle this and move forward?

Thanks.

I would have role play conversations with my daughter to check / plan responses to situations which particularly worry you & explain your suggestions / modifications to her behaviour clearly.

Then, if it's a trip into town for the first while I'd say yes sure I'm going on that day too so I can drop you off. Then plan to spend the day in town doing your own thing (not following your DD) and let her know where you want to meet at what time to take her home. You can also offer her friends a lift too so you have chance to listen to their interactions when they're in the back of the car (all this assuming you drive!).

I'm sure you can guess what sort of shops etc they'd be going to so if needs be you can always accidentally bump into them / walk by to check in & leave it to her if she wants to come over and say hello or just wave.

Looks less suspect if you can enlist a friend / relative etc to come shopping or out to lunch with you. Means she has independence but you're around if needed.

Gertruud, thanks very much for replying and for your advice.

I've tried having role play conversations and WWYD scenario discussions, without scaring or overwhelmed her of course. I think she often will just tell me what she knows I want to hear. She lies very easily unfortunately, so it does sometimes feel like these conversations are a waste of time, as who knows what she'd actually do in reality?!

I have told her if she wants more freedom, that she has to prove to me that she is mature enough and responsible enough in other ways and that it will be a gradual thing. I'm not just going to let her go out for the day on her own, when she's never done this before.

It's a tricky one.
Does she go on or have sleepovers?
Could you have a couple of girls to stay so that they're in a safe environment and you could get to know her friends and see how they interact together?.
You'll get more of an idea of how your daughter fits into her group and if you would feel comfortable if they went to town for just a couple of hours.

Let her go to a shopping centre with friends and stay in the centre while she shops and you have a coffee/ lunch for a couple of hours. She can ring you if she can't manage. It's not clear what you think she can't do. Often they just window shop and not buy anything. Often they buy totally inappropriate clothing I just let it go!

Live, she's only had one sleep over and that was here. The girl was very bossy and a bit possessive. My DD was so happy that she was there though, but I did intervene when I thought it was getting a bit much. That friendship has since cooled off, which may be a good thing, as it was very intense.

Hmm maybe I should just ask DD to invite this other girl over for a sleepover, so I can see them interact a bit. I guess they could always go into town the next day for a bit and I could drop them off, do a bit of shopping and pick them up a couple of hours later.

Guiloak, it's quite difficult to explain. She just loses her basic social skills sometimes, when faced with an unfamiliar or unexpected situation. As I said, she's also very naive and my biggest concern is that she'll go along with anything her friends suggest, just to hold onto them.

Just giving this a bump, in case there's anyone about who can maybe relate.

My dd is 12. Her trips to town are restricted to the main shopping centre only. Drop off /pick up at the door. Maybe get a map of the precinct from the info desk beforehand and talk about which shops she may like, where the toilets /info desk are etc.

I would do the following:

1. Do some practice runs with her. Get her to go to the shops with a list, give her ten mins then follow her and make sure she’s ok not frozen with indecision!

1. Allow her out with mates, but make plans a bit later so she has an ‘out’ after a couple of hours. Then debrief with her. Do this a couple of times to make sure she’s confident and comfortable.

A bit hypothetical because mine are younger, but I did 1 with my ten year old following a little way behind to the corner shop. He loved the freedom but was paralysed when they didn’t have the sweets he wanted!

Sunandrain,does your DD always stick to it?

Thanks, Eliza. Yes, I think that all sounds like a good idea.

" He loved the freedom but was paralysed when they didn’t have the sweets he wanted! "

Haha aren't we all?!

I think you probably do need to give her a little bit more freedom now, or else all her friends willl have moved on to the next stage and she will be left even further behind.

I agree with PP, in the early stages, agree where she is going, and for how long. You drop her there rather than her having to get bus/train. You agree to pick her up either at a pre-arranged time or when she phones (within an agreed window). If you have a shopping centre, then yes restrict to that on the first couple of trips. I also printed out the map for my DD when she first started on these trips!

As she gets more confident, and shows that she can keep to the limits, you can then start to allow a bit more freedom - either in terms of location, or travel.

I used to ask DD to text me when she got to her destination, text if she was changing location (eg leaving he shopping centre for the High Street etc), or if there was a change of plan. She would often text anyway - picture of her cake in Costa etc This has now become a habit, and although she is now 15 and goes up to London etc with friends she still tends to keep in regular touch.

I also stressed that she could phone at any time, for any reason - worried, lost, mislaid purse, trouble with friends etc.

Seeking, yes, that's what I'm worried about. I really don't want that to happen.

It's silly, as I always longed for all these "normal" worries, but now that we're here and a little late, I'm feeling

I’m autistic- wasn’t diagnosed as a child but I think we all knew I wasn’t quite like most kids. My parents found the happy medium by going to the local town with a parent who waited around and gave us a lift home. This was before mobiles but it was a small town. This worked well for a couple of years (maybe 10-12) until I was a bit more independent and would go with trusted friend.

How about they make their way to the cinema and you will pick them up afterwards? You may feel better knowing the majority of the time they will be sat watching the film but it's a start on giving her some independence.She could then progress to going into town for a pizza with friends and you could pick her up afterwards. Maybe less daunting for you both than her wandering around shopping precinct.

Faith, I do wonder if my DD is on the spectrum. Some of her struggles would indicate that she was, but sometimes we wonder if she is just a bit quirky and needs a bit more guidance than most.

Do you remember wanting more independence? My DD wants to more freedom, definitely, but she's also quite unusual, in that she doesn't like the thought of growing up. It scares her. One minute she'll be asking me about sex, periods etc, the next, about which doll is her favourite. Very awkward stage, bless her.

I think a couple of hours in town with a friend would be ok, she'll have the friend to muddle along with. IME they spend hours in stationery shops and buy nothing. I would stay in town too, they can call if any issues (presume she has a mobile?), you can even track her on your phone if it gives you more comfort.

I used to ask DD to text me when she got to her destination, text if she was changing location (eg leaving he shopping centre for the High Street etc), or if there was a change of plan. My mum still does this with and and I'm 32. She will ring if I take longer to get home from her house - ring the house phone - and ask if I'm home yet!

"One minute she'll be asking me about sex, periods etc, the next, about which doll is her favourite."

For what it is worth that sounds quite normal to me, my DD is 16 now but that was what she her friends were like a few years ago.

Atlasta, I suggested this actually, but apparently it's not what her friend suggested, so it's a no

She gets a bit overwhelmed with one to one conversation, so she may struggle with lunch at the coffee shop, which is what her friend wants to do and then have a wander around town.

Emma, I forgot about the tracker! Thanks, will look into that.

I would say she's a bit vulnerable because of her naivety and is susceptable to be lead astray and that's what I worry about most, rather than if she gets herself into a conversational muddle, which is likely.

My brain goes to "what if someone suggests going somewhere else and to not tell me?" I honestly think she would if it meant she got a bit of street cred. We've all been there though I guess.

When ds started going places we always dropped him and friends off together and we or another parent picked up after. We had Find my iPhone on in case we had to find him/he was lost, he had money in his wallet and emergency money tucked away, and then we left him to it to work it out himself. I find he becomes more mature and capable when with friends and there isn't a parent lurking wanting to know every single detail in the background.

As long as they know the basic rules - stay together, watch the roads, keep your phone/wallet safe, don't be noisy/act silly in shops, any problems go to a safe place (into shop near tills) and/or phone me, if you decide to leave the approx. area where I think you are phone me and let me know etc. If they stick to that, what is the worst that can happen? If they freeze at a checkout or have a problem in a café as long as they are polite the staff and/or their friends will help if they ask, or they'll just need to learn to unfreeze!

DD has mild undiagnosed SN then it's highly likely her emotional maturity lags quite a way behind that of her peers. A rough rule of thumb is about two thirds chronological age.

The problem is, she's very naive and is almost desperate to maintain these friendships and sometimes worries me how quick she is to please them

I would say she's a bit vulnerable because of her naivety and is susceptable to be lead astray and that's what I worry about most

See above, I know she'll want to be like her age-peers, but emotionally she won't be for quite some time. Unfortunately, they will recognise that and act accordingly. How well do you know these kids, are there any who would genuinely look out for her?

I'd work on her being able to say no, work on her setting boundaries, work on her self-esteem. Right now, what she wants to do and what she's capable of doing and being accepted doing that can be very different.

I think I pushed for more freedom but I had a sister who was 3 years older so I actually had more freedom than her at the same age because she paved the way. There were also some events where I was allowed to go with my sister (who was level headed) so they trusted I’d be okay with her. My parents used to say I was mature for my age but I really wasn’t. Old before my time in some ways, yes, but socially very immature. I had an August birthday too which didn’t help.

I would advise reading up about ASD specifically in girls/woman. I had no idea I might be autistic until I was in my early 30s, I was browsing MN, came across a thread with someone who suspected they were. They linked to Tania Marshall’s description of women with ASD and it was a ‘lightbulb’ moment. Within 2 weeks I’d requested an assessment. It was a long wait but I got my diagnosis. I cried with relief. I’d always known I was different, a bit weird, I finally knew why. If you think she might have ASD, I would at least discuss it with her and consider getting her assessed. It’s very difficult to grow up recognising you’re different without knowing why. This is a link to Tania Marshall’s website where she details information about what you might see in pre-schoolers and then another about older girls who have ASD. It might be helpful to you to have a look.

There's a very interesting thread about parents' opinions and autistic peoples' experiences on diagnosis or no diagnosis www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3629648-to-avoid-getting-my-son-diagnosed?pg=1

Is there anyone older that the group of friends like and trust (even look up to?) perhaps age 14. Anyway you could ask them to go along with the group as a host/chaperone (perhaps even pay them on the QT!)

They get a trip, with an older, cool friend, you have peace of mind.

Thanks everyone.

Blank, thanks for the link- very interesting thread.

I don't know these new friends at all. Only what DD has told me about them. So far, they have just been school friends. I have been suggesting she invites them over, but apart from that one girl(the bossy, but lovely one), she doesn't seem keen on the idea. She's worried it will be boring for them. I don't think she likes the idea of being the host. She doesn't understand why I need to get to know them and their parents. Personally, I think this is perfectly normal and a sensible thing to do for any parent, but more so in this case.

SciFi, unfortunately not. She does have a 15 year old friend who is absolutely lovely, but she's from a drama group, outside of school and isn't local, but again, their friendship is within the drama group, with the odd facetime and texting and doesn't continue outside. They get on really well. If I could hire her to look out for her, I would

She's meeting friend for lunch today and I've said that I will be dropping her off and picking her up for today. She protested initially and said that her friend will be allowed out all day on her own, but I had to be very firm and matter of fact, that if she wants more freedom, then she has to go with me on this and accept that it will be a gradual process.

I'm still really nervous about it. It's new to her, but it's also new to me.

Thanks for sharing that, Faith. Definitely rings true a little.