Bloody bloody half days for reception kids

[Icylightning]

Why?!! WHY?!!

Don’t the school realise what a nightmare this is for working parents, I’m a single working parent so it’s even worse. TWO weeks of half days. To ease the children into full days apparently. DD has been doing 5 full days at nursery for 18 mths. Longer hours than she will be doing in school.

I’m using most of my annual leave in the holidays but now need to ask for two weeks of leaving at lunch time ffs. I thought they couldn’t do this anymore?!

Her nursery won’t take her back for those two weeks and is nowhere near her school either. Bloody nightmare

firstimemamma you say it is best for children - but where is the evidence of that? The most frustrating thing is that none of us have seen any. At all.

Where are you all looking for the evidence? Education research journals? The TES? I wouldn’t know where to look myself but I realise that because of that, I couldn’t possibly make the claim that there’s no evidence.

If we don't instil in parents and children the importance of being in all day every day from the very beginning, then we risk higher instances of absences, which has a negative effect on learning.

But surely if the child isn’t meant to be there because they haven’t started full-time yet, there’s no attendance issue? Children on roll for part-time would only be expected to be in part-time.

@teachermaths my beef was with the OP for complaining that no one had offered any explanation as to why a staggered start was better for children .

gotmychocolateimgood had in fact offered an explanation ,a good hour before the OP was posting about the complete lack of explanation from anyone .

You may or may not agree with gotmychocolate. Personally I think the point that reception is not the same as preschool/nursery etc is
valid .

I also think that sorting childcare is v difficult for working parents .

There are also countless parent drop in sessions in the working week - it really does feel like they have no understanding of what a working parent’s week might look like.
Why would they have no understanding of what a working parent's week might look like, when the teachers themselves are highly likely to be working parents themselves? I daresay that they run drop-in sessions because otherwise they're criticised for not being open enough about what the children are doing in school. They're not compulsory, ffs. If you're a working parent ( and I went back to my teaching role when both of mine were 6 months old), you have to accept that there are things you're going to miss in your child's life, particularly if you're a teacher, when no time off during term time is allowed. Frankly, a drop-in session would be one I would be happy to miss.
They can't win.

AlienLife we have had reception teachers on here saying categorically that staggered starts are best. If there is evidence, surely they would be in a position to present it? And indeed I'd expect it to come from education research journals or TES. If it's there, let's see it.

But since we've also had teachers on here saying staggered starts are not a panacea, that does rather suggest that there is no evidence. So why not offer flexibility and recognise that weeks (and in my case an entire term) of staggered starts is not necessarily the best thing for every child?

I find these kinds of posts fascinating, mainly because the responses show that so many people are completely incapable of believing a scenario that doesn't match their own personal experience could possibly exist.

'School isn't childcare'

No, childcare is convenient, it has extended hours and the ability to pick and choose your provider.

School is the place that is allocated to you and that you have to send your child to if you are not lucky enough to be able to afford to homeschool or privately educate.

There are exactly zero childminders who pick up and drop off at my DDs school, so using a childminder for those ridiculous half days was impossible as how would she get to the childminder?

My DD was in full time nursery from 9 months, going from that to half days was a regression not supportive.

'You will have known about this in April when your school was allocated'

Nope, went to the open day and they hadn't decided yet, we went to 2 x settling in session in June and they hadn't decided yet, we found out the September start date when they did home visits at the end of July. This was 5 days before we had to give notice to her nursery to avoid an additional full month of fees for a space we would not have needed.

Using annual leave for covering these half days means losing out on spending time with your child during their school holidays. Using unpaid leave isn't always financially viable, holiday clubs for reception age children is very difficult to find, most providers only take year 1 up, and many of us don't have copious amounts of friends and family available to do holiday care.

My children's school in North Wales never did this. I'd never heard of it being a thing.

Lwmommy Those are all valid points - however, not one of them is the fault or responsibility of the school, apart from the poor advance notice of the plan for September.

Nurseries tend to be attached to schools in Wales though. So the children are already used to it by 5.

AlienLife we have had reception teachers on here saying categorically that staggered starts are best. If there is evidence, surely they would be in a position to present it? And indeed I'd expect it to come from education research journals or TES. If it's there, let's see it.

I’m assuming this is a reply to me (wrong username).

My point was that you said there’s no evidence. You didn’t say where you’ve looked to come to that conclusion.

School staff aren’t claiming there’s written evidence. I wouldn’t be surprised if, like our school, they’ve tried lots of different systems and found staggered starts to be work best. There’s no need to publish evidence because they’re not trying to convince anyone. It’s the system at their school and if you don’t like it, do what the OP has done and contact the head to see if someone can be freed up to look after your child after the others have gone home.

@callmeangelina schools do need to understand that each child's pre-school experience will have been different, and that a reasonable proportion (especially now with the 30 hours free childcare and changes to UC) will have been in full or near full time care right up to the day before reception starts.

Schools should take that into consideration and ensure that the staggered start doesn't disadvantage those children by taking them out of routine and getting them used to a shorter day then throwing them back into a longer day.

IMO saying that most schools/children cope just fine without a staggered start doesn't negate an argument that they would be better with a staggered start .

No it doesn’t. What would negate one of the arguments is any evidence on the impact of different systems. Is there any?

I imagine not, or schools would behave consistently rather than the bizarre range of practice you see now.

I know schools aren’t childcare. However, they operate at a time when my children would (mostly) otherwise be in childcare so I plan my childcare around them very carefully.

If the school isn’t consistent it makes my life and my husband’s much more difficult. We work around as best we can but I still thank my stars that DH was still on parental leave with our youngest when DS1 started reception for his hotch-potch of half days. And thankfully he was autumn born so he didn’t go in at all for the first eight days (great for us as he was our first, we took a last ever term time holiday.)

Since then the school has said they are seeing no benefit of that system to the children and in fact some were finding it unsettling or disruptive - particularly those who might suddenly have a mess of unfamiliar and inconsistent childcare thrown at them to cover the school settling in schedule.

Settling in is now just the first week of term. Summer borns do a half day on Wednesday, summer and winter/spring born children on the Thursday, all in for a half day on the Friday then start full time the following week.

My point was that you said there’s no evidence. You didn’t say where you’ve looked to come to that conclusion.

Generally it’s up to the person making the claim to provide the evidence that supports it. The PP is simply asking for the evidence that supports the unequivocal statements of benefit. She points out she hasn’t seen any; presumably those making the claims have seen it and can share.

Schools should take that into consideration and ensure that the staggered start doesn't disadvantage those children by taking them out of routine and getting them used to a shorter day then throwing them back into a longer day.

As I posted upthread, if the OP had mentioned her childcare issues when she was fist offered the place back in March, she may have had more chance of the school being able to consider her needs.

Emailing the head in the school holidays, when the child is due to start in September, is a bit late in my view.

And if the school doesn’t offer full time hours for any new starter, how would this “not disadvantaging” approach work?

Generally it’s up to the person making the claim to provide the evidence that supports it.

I agree. So someone claiming there’s no evidence should provide evidence to support that claim.

Aliens I don't think I claimed that there was no evidence; I just said I hadn't seen any. And since primary teachers on here claimed staggered starts were better, I rather think it's up to them as the experts to validate their claims.

I do really wonder why there isn't clear evidence based national policy on this.

Because poor kiddies are wrecked it's a big leap from pre school so u are being unreasonable
It's not about you

*I would have thought for many children the hotch potch of childcare that may ensue for those with working parents will be more confusing than starting full-time in Reception

^^ this from @ineedaholidaynow*

Id include a version of this argument when you make your case to school - so confusing/disruptive for a child used to full nursery days

But if you don't get anywhere - is it too late to try requesting some "parental leave" from work? I forgot this existed until I read about it on MN

I don't think I claimed that there was no evidence; I just said I hadn't seen any.

That’s true. I sort of assumed you were suggesting there wasn’t any evidence, but clearly it’s just that you haven’t seen any.

I think what’s more likely is that the school have tried different ways of doing it and found that, in their experience, staggered starts work better than full-time for all children from day one, from the point of view of all the children settling quickly and easily.

I agree. So someone claiming there’s no evidence should provide evidence to support that claim.

No, you’re fabricating (as well as indulging in a logical fallacy).

The PP directly asked the poster making the claim what the evidence for it was and said she hadn’t seen any. You know this, because you quoted it.

The onus is on the person making the claim to provide the evidence. It is not reasonable for the person making the claim to expect others to scour the evidence base to see if anything exists to support that claim.

It is also not reasonable to twist the words of others to suit one’s own argument.

Mine is awful, 1st week of Sept, no school. 2nd week Sept, mornings 9-11:30. 3rd week Sept, afternoons, 13-15:10. 4th week of Sept, Mon-Wed mornings, Thur morning +lunch, Fri full day. 30 Sept, so essentially OCTOBER, full time.

YANBU op. Luckily DSs school started full days from day one. They staggered the start dates though so 4/5 children started each day.

DS went to a primary school where they started either two hours in the morning or two hours after lunch, was barking mad, you could do nothing useful in that time. Then the head made a rule you could not drop off before ten to nine in the morning, that made it very difficult for parents who had to do drop offs at two schools or had to be in work at nine. Head quoted insurance rules at those that complained. I ran into a governor in town and mentioned it. Bollocks she said. We got a letter that week saying the children could come in earlier

Nowadays they do breakfast and after school club, how times change.

@Lwmommy

With respect, you are talking bollocks.

School calendars are set early in the Summer term before the Sept start (May time). School term dates are set over a year in advance. All of this information is always freely available in school websites. It is a requirement to have these up to date.

School is not childcare. In that you are right. It is an education that you get for a nominal fee (via taxation). The issue here is not with schools but with changing work lives and demands in parents.

What I do find hilarious is the same parents who moan about the holidays and teachers and schools not being realistic are the absolute first to complain when the child they have taken out of school for a term time holiday or allowed to be consistently late to school or let them stay off with every vague illness is suddenly not doing very well in assessments.

School is set up for the benefit of the child. If you want a school system that acts like childcare then you need to pay more, a lot more, in tax. Schools can barely afford to stay open and heat the buildings at the moment.

The issue is that parents are used to private nursery. If you want private nursery service then you have to keep paying private nursery prices. It doesn’t get any cheaper to educate your child. The government just take over paying for it.

I'm in Wales and it's the done thing (as in, you'd think it was law it's so entrenched) that once child turns 3 they start half days in school. It's preschool, yes, but part of the main primary school. It's practically unheard of to not opt for this and to use private nursery. So between 3 DC I've had 5 YEARS of half days. One year I had one DC in mornings and one in afternoons, so x4 school runs per day. I'm so glad it's over!!! Local private nurseries do pickups and drop offs at schools. If you use private nursery, do they offer that service?