Fuckity fuckity fuck

[Sobeyondthehills]

DP was on a 16 hour contract last year, got it up to a 20 hours contract, this meant we had a certain amount coming in and I could budget according to that.

He is also worked a shit ton of overtime, after Christmas this came down and eventually went down to his contracted hours of 20, in the company they did something which meant his hours fell down by 10% , to be honest we were struggling on his basic hours so this has meant we are in shit.

DP found a job, which is less hours, more reliable hours (he use to work shifts) but is cash in hand. I did try and argue how fucking shit this was, but you know he knows better. I also explained how having quit his job, this job without some form of a contract or anything else would mean that if it all goes tits up he wouldn't be able to sign on for 6 weeks.

DP in his wisdom ignored me accepted the job and is doing half and half but he has handed his noticed in, last day is Saturday.

Last week, at the cash in hand job he worked 4 days, he was meant to get the money on Wednesday and we have no news about it, I am going to either make him phone today or go down there but already this is shit and exactly what I warned him about.

is there anything we can do? I don't think his employer will have him back but it might be worth considering

What do you mean by he “just has a very simplified version of the system”?

You go to work, you work the hours, you pay the tax man and the NI man whats left you take home.

Why has this thread turned into a visit from amateur tax inspectors?

It is none of your business unless you have categorical proof of avoidance!

OP, I am sorry that you are going through this. My perception is that you are being bullied on this thread. Next they’ll be wanting you to post photos of your DP’s wage slips and returns.

The rest of you - leave this woman alone unless you have something supportive or constructive to say.

The rest of you - leave this woman alone unless you have something supportive or constructive to say.

Surely it is supportive to point out the glaringly big holes in this plan. Otherwise what mess will they be in in future when HMRC comes aknocking and they can't prove their income or how much tax the DH owed? Isn't it better for the OP to realise the situation sooner rather than later?

OP he'll need to do a tax return at the end of the financial year to ascertain how much tax he needs to pay.
NI I believe he can register and pay now. My DH pays on a monthly basis. It's a pretty low amount if you're earning under a certain amount.

My DH is self employed but as a contractor and works on fixed term contracts with a company for weeks/months on end. He doesn't invoice them - they pay him regularly as part of his contract. He has an accountant and does regular self assessments and is fully paid up with tax and NI. The point of this post being that it is possible to be self employed, work for the same company week in/week out, and not invoice.

I wouldn’t know what professional advice to give but I wanted to say how shocked I am at so many very, very rude replies about your situation and about your DP.
Why are so many posters judgmental of a situation and individual without knowing the full facts?!
If he can physically hold down 2 jobs for a while, maybe he can retract the notice from 1st job and agree to strictly Xh/week. I think you have 3 months to register as self-employed from the start of self employment. Definitely put aside the money due for NI and tax due at the end of January (or pay it twice a year).

I can understand your frustration with your DP, but he sounds like he is trying his best.

It is none of your business cash in hand is very much my business when its illegal and cheating the rest of us who pay NI/tax.
The op said 'cash in hand' so of course people are going to be angry.

@Sobeyondthehills

For example sake, let's say he is a plasterer.
Previously, he was employed by someone else to plaster for their company. They got the jobs, and their employees carried the job out. He got a salary and tax and NI were paid out of his wage before he got it.

Now, he has decided to be self employed. So he has set up his own plastering business and he needs to find customers and jobs. When he gets a customer, he tells them what the work will cost and then invoices them for that work. He gets paid and he needs to keep records and pay his tax when he does a tax return. He can work regularly for someone but they can't be his only customer; they can't treat him like an employee and dictate his hours and all the rest of it.

It sounds like he has been given a job by someone who doesn't want to have the legal obligations of an employer, no pensions contributions and all the rest of it. So they've given him a job but it's not official and they are paying him in cash so there is not paper trail. He is saying that he will register as a sole trader and pay tax that way, but he will need to issue invoices and get signatures upon payment etc. He will need a paper trail. If these people are his only job them HMRC will look at it as they are employing him but he is pretending to be a sole trader so they can avoid the legal requirements of having staff. It's not a good idea.

@TixieLix

Yes, but they have a fixed term contract. They have hired your husband's services and have a contract in place. They havnt hired him as a permanent worker. Just paying for a service for X number of months. That's fine.
But that's not what is happening here.

The op said 'cash in hand' so of course people are going to be angry.

That would involve him getting cash in his hand and at the moment, he still has none.

What he has is having worked for no money at one place and the place that has paid him he is leaving.

He is a fucking dickhead

You can be a sole trader and work for one company for a set amount of time, at hours they lay out (ie 9-5 for 12 weeks or similar). You do need to invoice and then keep record of payments etc, to pay the tax etc.
And the company will have to do the same. And there will need to be a contract. There is a limit of the amount of time you can work for them before needing to go PAYE though.

It sounds like he has been given a job by someone who doesn't want to have the legal obligations of an employer, no pensions contributions and all the rest of it. So they've given him a job but it's not official and they are paying him in cash so there is not paper trail. He is saying that he will register as a sole trader and pay tax that way, but he will need to issue invoices and get signatures upon payment etc. He will need a paper trail. If these people are his only job them HMRC will look at it as they are employing him but he is pretending to be a sole trader so they can avoid the legal requirements of having staff. It's not a good idea.

Thank you for this, it is what I thought, in the middle of this thread, he is going to be fucked if he ever does get paid and keeps on with it. Maybe its best if he doesn't get paid and he will realise and stop being so stubborn

When you say cash in hand do you mean actual cash in an envelope type of payment?

If so that does sound very dodgy, how is the amount that he's going to get paid worked out if he doesn't send an invoice?

He's learned a lesson the hard way, maybe he won't be so impulsive in future.

It doesnt sound like hes very dependable work wise. I would definitely work as much as you can to reduce your reliance on him.

I cant see where the Op said she is claiming benefits? ,
It is correct HMRC don't like people claiming they are self employed , when they aren't . However , the onus is on the employer to make the correct checks and if Tax and NI haven't been deducted the employer is the one liable for it , not the employee . The employees defense is of course I haven't been given a payslip
More importantly / costly for the employer is not enrolling them into a company pension scheme , that's where the big fines are

Sometimes OP , when times are hard , you have to do what you have to do to get buy , remember you don't know who is behind the keyboard , nor can you trust their agendas

When you say cash in hand do you mean actual cash in an envelope type of payment?

As he hasn't been paid yet, I can't say, but yes I have assumed it would be that sort of thing.

The job advert didn't state any of this, just to make that clear, it was only really in the interview (and the time he could have backed out) when it came to late what they were after.

I cant see where the Op said she is claiming benefits? ,

I didn't in the original post, but I have said it, but its just one more reason why we are trying to do it right,

late = light

It doesnt sound like hes very dependable work wise

TBF to DP, he has been employed continuously for the ten years together and before that, he is a very hard worker and will do all the hours he can.

Its just this blip, where he has fucked up

@Nesssie and the rest of you piling onto the OP.

Save your indignation for the big corporations and uber wealthy who lie, manipulate and exploit their way out of paying billions of tax revenue. They are the real problem, not some poor soul on a zero hours contract or casual work earning peanuts.

I take the point about warning the OP about the tax and NI bill but that could be done in a much gentler and reasonable fashion.

OP, if I were you I would leave the thread now, you’ve had some good advice and some sympathy. Hope things get sorted out.

@IrisAtwood

Thanks, I have been around on mumsnet for donkeys years on one name or another, so am use to the blunt approach.

I just hope DP has heard something I have said to him today, with the advice that has been given and is talking to his manager as I type

Yes, it can be brutal - far worse than speaking to people irl. Glad you’re a seasoned MNer

Yes, it can be brutal - far worse than speaking to people irl. Glad you’re a seasoned MNer

The benefit of being behind a screen. Although I seem to have support from elsewhere, so that was nice.

Just waiting for DP to come home, with some hopefully good news

I feel for you, but what is the reason he can't get a full-time job?

I feel for you, but what is the reason he can't get a full-time job?

There isn't one. He was doing 40-50 hours from about March last year till around Jan this year, then they started cutting hours, till he was cut right back to his contracted hours. He was originally told it would be temporary and then he would go back up, but then his hours got cut again and he started looking for a new job.

This other job, was the first to actually respond to him