Need advice about my 8 year old

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My son is just 8. Hes a lovely boy and very bright but we consistently have to pick him up on his manners. My older child has the loveliest manners so I really dont understand. Its even been mentioned at school although they have said they've seen an improvement. Hes always been extremely shy and get embarrassed very easily. But I'm mortified to think that he sometimes isnt polite. He can struggle in some social situations and is happiest when at home.

Any ideas? We have wondered if he had mild ASD but he has a great sense of humour, makes good eye contact, chats away, makes friends easily. I'm not an expert though so it could be that. Really dont know how to improve his manners. I try to do positive reinforcement and tell him what a lovely boy he is as well as telling him off.

Also just to add he definitely has empathy and is very loving. But is stubborn too so if told to say sorry, for example, he really doesn't want too.

What do you mean by manners? Remembering to say please and thank you, or interrupting adults, or being loud and brash & inappropriate?
Or table manners - forgetting to close his mouth when chewing or reaching across the table?

I mean saying please and thank you. Also saying sorry and just generally having a bit of a teenage attitude at times. Yes and also interrupting. Hes not loud, brash or inappropriate.

Maybe I'm expecting too much but my daughter was much politer at his age. And hes always been a bit like this. He used to be painfully shy and refuse to go in a room full of people, even if he knew them.

Well re: saying sorry he’s at that age now where i don’t think you can just demand he says sorry. He had to want to and understand what’s he’s done wrong. If he understands all that and still doesn’t want to then perhaps a send to his room to think about what he’s done would encourage him to say sorry.

Good idea. Thanks. Although he used to be scared to he in his room on his own and we have had a breakthrough recently where he is now happy to play on his own in his room. So not sure I want to use that as a punishment.

Tbh he sounds exactly like my 8 year old, i think its a development thing. When mine asks for something without saying please or thank you, i just keep ignoring him until he says it, then politely remind him of his manners. As for apologising, he never does it without me asking for one, but he will sit in his room for an hour peacefully to reflect on things then normally comes back down with a much more positive happier attitude.

Thank you. We definitely arent there yet either the reflecting bit. Maybe he is just quite emotionally immature.

My DS1 is shy to the point of bad manners, from my POV. Drives me nuts. He's 12, and always been like this. Doesn't say hello, thank you etc as is too shy to speak and avoids eye contact, because of shyness. He is only just becoming able to order for himself in a cafe/restaurant - and still avoids that if he can. Me and DH are generally friendly, chatty and polite. As is DS2. DS1 is fine if it's just us or his grandparents. I don't know where he gets it from.

School reports don't mention bad manners, but are starting to sound a bit exasperated about him not raising hand, choosing to interact with them etc.

He sometimes interrupts or chews with mouth open - but those seem more like normal childish lapses and he will correct himself if reminded.

He sounds shy. What’s your definition of manners - is it going up to an adult and saying hello, responding loudly and with lots of detail when asked a question?

Some children are shy and find it hard to talk to adults they don’t know well.

He was offered an ice cream by a mum friend he knows well and wouldn't get it, wouldn't say thank u although he wanted one. I think that may have been shyness but just looked so rude! It has only been mentioned once by school.

My son was like this at that age, He's still embarrasses easily, but he did grow out of that stage. I have daughters too and I find it very noticeable how emotionally immature boys can be compared to girls. Good luck!

Mine would also have missed out on the ice-cream, because of having to make eye contact, say 'yes please' and then 'thank you'. He would have squirmed with discomfort at the idea. Maybe unless it was one of one or two mum friends that he knows v v well.

I wouldn't be concerned about those things. I find the obsession with specific words strange, they don't make you polite. You can be perfectly polite without saying "please" or "thank you" and you can be perfectly rude while using those words.

As for "sorry": I've never forced a child nor will I ever force a child to say "sorry". Either they are sorry for what they did, then they will show it or say it, or they are not sorry, in which case saying "sorry" is completely meaningless. I've more than once met children who apparently though saying "sorry" afterwards is like a permission to do whatever they please.

Ok thank you. Have thought of something else, hes quite vocal at saying hes bored or that something was boring.

Any more thoughts?

Yes. How about leaving him alone to be who he is. If he is not being downright rude then just leave it. Makes me a bit angry that shy/socially awkward people are somehow in the wrong.

It's really unfair of you to use your daughter as the standard of "normal" or "acceptable" behaviour. It will not do any of you any good - if you keep doing it you're effectively putting your daughter on a pedestal and setting your son up to always be inadequate in your eyes because he will never be your daughter and will always be different. Both children will pick up on that.

They are different children, with different personalities. Your daughter is not the perfect model of how a child should be or how a child should develop. She is herself.

And your son is a different child, with a different personality and different needs. It's quite shocking that instead of recognising that you've immediately tried to diagnose him with something to explain his "flaws" compared to your daughter.

I gather too that you have not experienced shyness? A lot of what you describe is a shy, anxious child who feels overwhelmed, afraid and embarrassed in social interactions. It's not lack of manners, and you treating it as something to be punished or diagnosed will make it worse. Focus on making it easier for him to feel comfortable, not harder.

Inform yourself on how to adapt your own personality and natural style to a shy child - because you do need to learn to do things differently and respond differently in order to help him, it's not about demanding he bend to you. You need to change how you are behaving.

Stop comparing him to your daughter. Stop labelling him impolite. Stop categorising him as faulty.

And support him. As the child he is. With the needs he has. And value his individual personality.

Ok thank you! I dont think I ever said my daughter was perfect!

I think maybe separate out your battles.

Please and thank you could well be shyness, - and I think many parents understand that shy children struggle with this. At home he should be able to manage them - as presumably he's not shy around his family. But with other adults he may struggle, Encourage him to smile if something is offered and look enthusiastic, then he may gradually gain enough confidence to verbally thank people.

Saying sorry - displaying contrite or 'sorry' behaviour would be enough for me - children struggle with the word, and it is just a word, what you really require is stopping of bad behaviour and making amends, if he can do this that is displaying an apologetic attitude. If his attitude shows he isn't sorry, then give him some time to think about it and then return and interact sensibly.

Interrupting and saying he is bored/things are boring is rude, not shy, and he is able to not do these things at 8. (He may well be emotionally immature, and not think about the effect of his words, but he's old enough to have a conversstaion about it) Explain that interrupting is rude and that everyone needs to take thier turn to speak, what he has to say is not more important than anyone else, so he needs to wait his turn (unless it is an emergency obv.) And it is rude for others to interrupt when he is speaking.

It's unkind to say things are boring or you are bored (when you are at someone elses house or attending an event someone has organized etc.) He's old enough to understand he will hurts people's feeling si f he says this kind of stuff and he needs to keep his boredom to himself. Sometimes we need to just suck up a boring event to be kind to someone. If he's bored at home - find him a job to do - he'll probably disover he suddenly has something interesting to do instead

8 is a funny age - a sort of border when people start to expect a bit from children in terms of social awareness. But all children are different, and generally boys tend to be a little later than girls in acquiring these skills.

Thank you. I realised as well that he really struggles if rules are altered. Just cant cope, so for example if playing a game of football and they arent playing strictly by the rules he will have a total meltdown. Just cant handle it.

And will do fake baby crying which is pretty mortifying!