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Original poster

WWYD - Ex taking DD(3) abroad

38 replies

Librocubicularist · 18/07/2019 16:14

Ex has wants to take DD on holiday this year for the week of August BH. He has said that he will be going with some of his neighbours. They will being staying in a with people they know and that DD has 'friends' there. He has been very vague with the details. He is evasive when I ask questions in general.

DD visits him EOW. She has told me about 'Lily' the neighbour. They do a lot of things with Lily - go to the park, have dinner, do things in flat, go to 'Lily's' flat etc. The friend is 'Lucy', Lily's niece and the holiday destination is Lucy's house. She has also mentioned sleeping in the bed with Lily when she stay's at her dad's flat. That Lily is her best friend etc.

Obviously Lily is the new GF. We separated a year ago. I'm not sure how long the relationship has been going on for. I feel really uncomfortable with the whole thing. Ex is being very deceptive with the relationship. When I spoke to ex at the weekend when DD was staying with him, he said he had nipped to the shops and had left DD at home asleep with the neighbour. DD told me 'Daddy went to work and I stayed at home with Lily'. It feels as though he has this woman playing Mum whilst DD is staying with him.

Ex is Egyptian and has a UK visa which needs to be renewed in a year. I moved a close to my family after separating to get support (a couple of hours away) and he was angry initially, threatening to get SS involved etc (I found out he did call them). We have agreed access arrangements between ourselves and he generally gives me bit of money for DD (not much though). I don't think it's in his interests to take DD away (at the moment at least). My concern is if he took DD to Egypt I would never get her back.

WWYD about the holiday?

OP posts:

MercedesDeMonteChristo · 19/07/2019 10:19

I understand your concerns, but as her father would he also be able to say you cannot take her out of the country?

When we were children my dad took by brother to his country of birth and we have dual nationality and this country sees us as their citizen, but my mum still needed to provide a notarised letter of consent to allow my brother to go.

WooMaWang · 19/07/2019 10:30

If he is in the birth certificate, then he can deny permission for the OP to take their DD abroad too.

And, frankly, I would deny permission an ex for a holiday if they’d done the same to me. It would be a reasonable response to say, well either we both get to take DD abroad or no one does.

SmartPlay · 19/07/2019 10:35

So they want to take her to the Czech Republic? I assume to visit his girlfriend's family? I don't see a problem with that, but I'd surely want proper details about where my child is staying.

Do you both have custody? Who's last name does your daughter have? If she and her Dad don't have the same last name, he will likely be asked for a confirmation that she's his daughter and, if he doesn't have custody, an agreement from you that he's allowed to take her out of the country. In that case there won't be any risk of him taking her somewhere else.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Relationship problems

Omzlas · 19/07/2019 10:38

Forget Lily.

He's being evasive - this would be enough for me to deny any and all plans to leave the UK. Full stop. If he intended to take you DD on holiday, he'd have no issue with telling you where they were staying, flight details etc.

It's a hell no from me

WooMaWang · 19/07/2019 10:43

Its not even about having the same last name or whether or not you are the resident parent. If a child is taken abroad by one parent, the border agencies require confirmation from anyone else with parental responsibility that they’re OK with this.

If the child doesn’t have the same surname as you then, additionally, it’s a good idea to take a copy of the child’s birth certificate to prove the relationship.

Mothers/resident parents do not have more rights than fathers/nonresident parents.

I know this because I was seriously grilled by border officials bringing DS back into the country without a letter from his father (we had all left the country together) and told in no uncertain terms that I should make sure I had the right paperwork in future. You’d think that returning to your country if residence would be uncontroversial, but apparently not.

I’m about to go on holiday within the EU and, despite being the resident parent, I have organised the right permission to take a child abroad paperwork. Luckily my ex thinks it’s a good thing that one of us is taking DS on holiday abroad this year and, despite being horrible generally, wouldn’t want to discourage it.

SmartPlay · 19/07/2019 11:11

@WooMaWang
Legally it doesn't matter what last name the child has, but officials tend to look closer if no adult has the same name as the child.
I've travelled several times to and from the UK with my daughter and never had any problems, noone ever asked for a permission or anything. We don't have UK passports, though.

luckylavender · 19/07/2019 11:24

I'd want details of the flights, safeguarding in place AND I'd want to meet Lily.

Hereward1332 · 19/07/2019 13:24

There is a hige amount of racism on this thread. Apparently if a NRP is from Egypt, they are only allowed to take their children to Skegness. The OP's dd has a right to know their wider family and heritage, and this happens to be abroad. Ex seem settled in UK, and nothing OP has said suggests he is planning to abduct his DD and leave her with mysterious relatives in Egypt. It's blind prejudice.

WooMaWang · 19/07/2019 14:05

I agree, @Hereward1332. Being Egyptian doesn’t automatically make someone a flight risk.

Nor does not wanting to share all the details of their new relationship with their ex.

Dogsaresomucheasier · 19/07/2019 16:31

His visa is close to expiring and he’s being evasive, really not racist to question is motives.

Hereward1332 · 19/07/2019 16:42

No it really is racist.

You are assuming that because a visa need renewing he must be planning to kidnap his daughter.

He would have little problem renewing his right to remain as his daughter is a UK national. It's Article 8 of the Human Rights Act. Your assumption is based on his background and ignores the fact that he is settled in the UK and seems to be in a relationship here.

Is it just the fact he is an Arab makes you think he is untrustworthy? Would you assume the same if he was Australian?

GeorgiaGirl52 · 22/07/2019 01:32

The courts in Australia or Canada or the USA will return child to mother. Courts in Egypt or Iran or Jordan will not. Not racist, just reason.

CrazyCatLady159 · 22/07/2019 01:48

Op you sound too focused on the new gf - not that I wouldn't be; because I was when I was in that situation myself.
She is not your DD's mum and never will be.

There are 2 separated issues at play here that I can see for you. The holiday/lack of trust and the new gf.

My concerns here would be -:
-there is no formal custody agreement
-he could (not would; but the potential is there) travel to one place and then on to Egypt.
-he has been evasive about details

The only time my ex was allowed to take my dd abroad was when the courts put a prohibited steps order in place and a child arrangements order.
The country he travelled to also had to be part of The Hague convention and he had to send me all details / booking confirmation of hotels, flights and details of everyone going on the trip.

I would either look to get a CAO in place so you have some legal standing before the holiday so that IF anything were to happen you have some protection for your dd or say no to the holiday.

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