Do non NHS people realise how bad it is at the moment?

[DoyouknowJo]

I had to justify to my managers manager why I needed to spend £7 on stationery. Stationery. Some biros, some staples and a box of envelopes.

One of my colleagues chairs broke and she was told to apply to charitable funds to get a new one.

Everything is held together with sticky tape and blu tac (literally and figuratively)

We have four members of admin staff bunched into a desk meant for two, because there is no money to pay IT to put a new port in on their desks.

Waste toner cartridges are on lockdown. If yours is full you should take a scalpel, cut the seal open, empty it and then stick it back together and put it back in the printer. Don't worry about all your printing then being covered in smudgy ink. We're broke ya know.

And some fucking idiot turned up to A&E today...because their arm has been hurting for two months and they are off on holiday tomorrow and could we sort it please.

I'm thinking of starting an anonymous instagram account to get all this crap out.

Anyone who has had the misfortune to use the NHS at all knows how poor the standard of care is, not just for MH but everywhere. But we all put up with it and talk about staff as saints and angels and how much better it is than the (unspecified) alternative while they're bitching about pens and calling patients wankers.

There is a certain company at the moment assisting the UK MOD to “help create more effective project management, project controls, and supply chain management processes for the defence equipment and support function” and are looking to maximise public investment.

They need to be called in to the NHS and slash and burn. I know someone who hit their head and had bad headaches for 2 weeks (and counting) that had to wait 6mths for an MRI. They could be dead by then. It’s disgusting what you have to put up with

And yet procurement rules mean you can’t buy cheap resources on amazon, instead you must go through preferred suppliers that are sometimes 7x the cost of sourcing the same item on Amazon!

I think the problems have been a long time coming.

Saving a few pounds here and there on stationary isn’t going to cut it when as a patient you can see so much wastage just on diagnosing someone.

As a relatively small example Dd spent 3 days in hospital having every test under the sun.

I knew what she had wrong with her as I had the same symptoms when I was in my 20s. The dr told her to tell me to stop using dr google.

Finally after 3 days they did the test and diagnosed her immediately with what I had said in the first place.
A simple prescription and she was on her way.
In the ward there was 5 other women who had told there doctor what they had wrong but it had taken them many tests and in some cases many months before finally testing for what they had been told in the first place.

I probably cost the NHS £60-70,000 over 7 years on irrelevant tests and treatments, physio, consultants etc whilst they tried to guess what was wrong with me. They refused to send me for a £300 MRI scan to diagnose me properly as it cost too much.

Dp has cost them at least £3-400,000 more for not diagnosing what Dp had asked to be tested for in the first place. Ultimately it has cost Dp his life.

Until you get the bigger issues with the NHS diagnosing and treatments sorted then you can bring in as many time and motion studies as you want to save a few pence here and there whilst thousands are marching out the door.

giggly you can fuck right off with your comments I went to A&E after 3 weeks of passing brown water and not eating, I had been to my GP to be told it was a side affect of antibiotics one week and the next week was told I had a virus, I was dehydrated, in pain and confused and yes bloody scared only to be treated by the triage nurse as a time waster and accused of trying to see a specialist by the back door because my DH stupidly asked if a gastroenterologist could see me, I didn't even see a doctor, was told to go back to my GP luckily I got an emergency appointment the next day, 24 hours after being dismissed and given no help by A&E I was back, sent there by my GP who could actually see how very ill I was

I was in Hospital for 11 days 10 of which were in Isolation because I had SEPSIS yes that's right sepsis I could have died, in fact not so long ago I read about a young mother who did die of sepsis after like me being dismissed by A&E and then misdiagnosed by her GP

I have every respect for NHS staff, I was treated so well and felt so safe whilst I was in hospital but judging by your comments it seems that SOME NHS staff have no respect for patients

Sounds about right, herroyalnotness. My most recent dealing with the NHS I had to wait two hours to get into a ward I was supposed to have open access to, having been blue lighted there, where I was then diagnosed with a urinary tract infection rather than the life threatening complication of a condition I actually had which was on my notes that I took in with me. Still, I only waited another four hours until someone listened to me and I was admitted for emergency surgery. Which dangerously incompetent treatment isn't half as much of an issue as not having a fucking pen ofc.

They’re talking about pens to highlight just how dire it is!

Imagine having to fill out a requisition to buy a small amount of stationary, which then gets reviewed by your manager and pushed up to their manager for review and sent over to procurement. WhAt a waste of hours and money.

E for envelope, everyone

Its not that the OP doesnt care, only people who havent worked in the NHS would say this! Its tiring and frustrating. There are forever clear advice posters/notes on social media about what to do and where is appropriate to go with a problem, be it your local pharmacy, gp, out of hours or A&E and people are STILL ignoring this and causing hours of waiting in A&E!
The other week 2 families came in with children at 2am with HAYFEVER!!!! Then had the cheek to moan about a doctor not hurrying up to see them so they could get medicine then go home... I gave them the truth that they could easily get treatment and it really wasnt the place! Off they went when they realized they were not getting free tabs! There is a minor ailments for this stuff or 50p for a box of antihistamines!

Constant time wasters is absolutely infuriating... also not being able to work with appropriate equipment is true... cant even get so much as a bloody bedside lamp to work usually! Ugh! Yet they will pay shitty 2 faced backstabbing managers 50k a year to not manage!!!! No wonder I am leaving it.

It's a symptomatic attitude though. I'm sure that the incompetent fuck who told me to go home and drink more water also thought I was a wanker and then bitched about how hard his job was, much the same as the OP. He would be right of course as I am a wanker; however I was also a wanker who was very close to dying and because we've got a shit healthcare system we've got shit doctors like him who fail to spot such things even when people (eventually, after two hours of waiting to get in a ward) pitch up with their diagnosis written on the fucking notes they bring in with them.

And it is ashame because I do have kindness and compassion for people who really are ill x

It costs £124 every time someone walks in the door of A&E.

Tell me how time wasters aren’t contributing to lack of funds?

^

I reckon 70% of the people in A and E are time-wasting.

If the NHS stopped treating international citizens who are health tourist without payment up front or valid travel insurance like other countries do they would not be broke

^

Same in Canada. First question - Where's your health insurance card?

I don't mean to sound rude but it's not about the shortage of pens. It's about the fact that the NHS is strapped for cash, in part due to wasted funds.

^^

Pens reflect the greater picture though eh. Some posters are too dense to see the wood for the trees.

OH dear, this is not the kind of thing I want to hear from a person who chose to work in NHS.
Your language and comments are not encouraging that care is the top of your agenda

^^

Yes. Let's not get too flustered, eh?

Christ, it takes them five hours to sign off a prescription. Can you imagine how long it would take to check residency and then fill in five million forms, four million of which can only be signed off by Gladys, but she doesn't work on Tuesday, and the other million can only be dealt with by Steve, but he's on his break between now and Billericay and he doesn't do that job on days when there isn't a werewolf in the corridor, and anyway most of it is outside the scope of his duties and he doesn't have the necessary health and safety photocopier training.

It’s horrific OP and the general public aren’t seeing the severity and they won’t realise until it’s too late sadly.

I was bank a&e last week and we had someone wanting a routine eye test believe it or not!

We need a public campaign to help people understand where to go and what to do for simple care. I seriously think we should be bringing self care lessons into primary schools, small things like cuts/grazes and cold symptoms

What’s happened to the stationary budget though? Didn’t you have one or was it spent on something else?

It doesn’t really work that you stop buying stationary that’s needed and spend the money elsewhere, that’s poor budgeting.

I've never been to hospital except in an emergency- unfortunately there have been quite a lot. DS fell from a height as a small baby and cut his head to the bone, crashed into railings age 6 and knocked himself out cold and had googling eyes thereafter and face pouringcwith blood. Another time the little sod mountaineered 6 fert for a botyle a cakpol and hekped himself ( consultant friend calculated dose said he needed hospirsl treatment urgently) DD stopped breathing. DH had suspected heart attack. On al these occasions we've taken ourselves there no ambulances or fuss but when my son had a serious head injury and my baby daughter wasn't breathing we had to try yo get through queues of tourists demanding a doctor. Once it was due to a sore throat anther time dhe to a splinter.
I have very severe epilepsy and a joint disorder. I Un fortunately wake up in hospital from time to time. I broke my neck. I waited4 hours for help the paramedics were so apolgeticand explainedthey have t spend so log dealing with trip nonsene they cant do their jobs. Unfortunately I don't think the message was properly transcibed as the exactly what had helped maybe.
I have attended I believe for legitimate reasons where I needed real help and it really annyosme thrnuber of drinks and groups of there seemingly for a day out and people who could just go to a primacy or go. I pay medical insurance. I be treatment when I want it but It means I don't have to pile on pressure to a crazy system. The NHS is amazing for A&E If it's used properly but stringent assesments need to be applied to get rid of the time wasters and was on the message not to come back for minor ailments like splinters. It would better all round. It would free up time and space and ultimately fine the system a squirrel a tiny bit more leeway.

@caringcarer I’m guessing you get your facts from the Daily Mail .

The ACTUAL cost of so-called health tourism is a small fraction of the NHS budget and in no way the reason we are in this mess.

We are in this mess because this current government is actively privatising the NHS and running it down at the same time. If it continues as it is now it’ll be unrecognisable in a generation.

The abuse of the service and the “it’s my rights brigade” are also a very real problem .

I left 6 months ago after 15 years service, the last 12 years as patient admin. I loved my job but I was so frustrated with the system.

One example, the patients on my ward had the choice of a cooked breakfast. I would volunteer to go to the restaurant and collect it (otherwise it would mean taking a nurse off the ward and away from patient care) so I hand over my signed form to say Joe Blogs requests a cooked breakfast and i tell them he wants eggs on toast. So when they dish up a plate of sausage, bacon, egg, mushrooms , beans, tomatoes and toast I think they must have misheard me...no, they heard me perfectly fine But, they tell me they HAVE to issue a full cooked breakfast and for me to tell the patient he can leave whatever he doesn't want or I can plate up the eggs and toast in our patient kitchen and bin the rest!

A quick scan of the restaurant at 9.30am and I see it's awash of navy blues, thoses would be the matrons, specialist nurses and ward managers.
Shocking!

I agree that things are bad, but I think predominantly directing the blame at patients is wrong.

Yes some patients are time wasters and piss takers - but you'll always get that to a degree as no system is perfect.

However on a larger scale the underfunding of the Nhs I absolutely believe is a deliberate and calculated ploy to persuade the population that abolishing the Nhs and moving to an American style system is remotely acceptable.

There are patients going to Ooh and even a&e for matters that really should be dealt with by primary care not always because they're ignorant and entitled (though I accept this does happen) but also increasingly because it's so difficult to get a primary care appointment in some areas and they then reach a point where they can no longer bear the pain/distress of the ailment and head to Ooh/a&e.

Where I live we are massively poorly resourced for primary care, there's no Ooh service and at one point a "rejigging" of GP boundaries for catchment areas was subject to a massive cock up which meant one local postcode area (by which I don't mean one street but first part of postcode eh all of NW1) were forgotten in the recalculation and none of the gp surgeries would take any of those residents on as they weren't sure whether they'd get the funding for them! It can be murder getting a primary care appointment even with direct referrals to certain services (physio, Chiropody, primary care mental health, addiction services) as there simply aren't enough employees.

In addition in the last 5 years we've we've lost our local maternity & paediatrics depts altogether (nearest 90 mins away and the area actually covered by these services used to cover areas up to a further hour away from the hospital now covering. The hospital now covering has received no additional funding to cover the extra work), the a&e and sexual health clinics are now only open certain hours and we've also lost several local dentists and opticians which has also had an impact.

Transport to the hospital now supposedly covering lost services is woefully inadequate and constantly reducing. Only available leaving my areas approx 9am and returning around 7pm.

So there are sometimes people with agonising toothache, bleeding in pregnancy, mental health crises etc going to a&e as they're unable to access other support.

"It's shit but people have kept voting for this government. What did they expect?"
I'm not convinced those most affected and suffering as a result DID vote for this govt - I certainly didn't!

I'm having real problems with my mh currently, I've been discharged from the Cmht key worker "service" (an absolute debacle which I am debating making a formal complaint about how it's been handled) been referred to the psychology dept (which consists of one psychologist covering 2 counties and therefore has a long waiting list) so I'm currently somehow existing via minimal support from my GP (who is lovely but very overstretched and not confident on mh side of things when they're as bad as I'm dealing with, plus I'm on meds she's not familiar with).

It's completely unacceptable - for patients and employees.

m an ex nurse myself and still have friends working in the Nhs and so am definitely hearing quite regularly how bad it's getting, but I have to agree with pp that op's attitude isn't the best. My friends still working in Nhs very much feel
it's mostly the underfunding - across the board, from recruiting and training to primary care to acute hospital services, and yes to basics like stationery! - that is the problem.

And no I don't believe the money isn't available either, it's certainly available for what the govt WANTS to spend money on, to prop up minority election results, to fund wars, tax breaks for the already wealthy, to fund the almighty fuck up that is their LACK of handling brexit, to fund unnecessary 2nd homes and outrageous expenses for mps, to fund Chris graylings & others constant cock ups, repeated leadership elections etc etc etc

If there's anything we need to abolish its parliament! Get rid of all the greedy mps (of all parties) who are not actually interested in serving the people and particularly the most vulnerable in society, but who have become mps for the power, prestige and profit!

Yes profit!

Because while MPs salaries are supposedly low compared to equivalent private company roles, they're hardly nmw! Plus there are 2nd homes which MPs "flip" ridiculous expenses claims AND most profitable but indirect is the ability to make laws and vote in parliament to make certain industries that they have vested interests in more profitable.

The main ones are housing (seriously go and look at just how many mps are landlords, property developers etc and then look at those MPs voting records on housing matters!), banking and... Healthcare!

Personally I'd make it that while someone is serving as an MP they are not allowed to have shares or other interests in commercial companies! Unfortunately we can't eliminate the issue of their families having these interests but I do think this would improve things at least a little!

"Why would a govt introduce fees to train nurses in a context of a 40,000 nurse shortage in the UK?" You answered your own question
"You can understand those who think the NHS is being deliberately run down to persuade people that it needs privatising."!

One of my friends that is still nursing is a mentor for trainees. She and I both agree that the increasing focus on academic ability of recruits (rather than aptitude, the right personality type and a practical approach) then the additional issue of removing the bursary means that people who would be well suited to nursing are facing impossible barriers to entering the profession. A local fairly new friend, who currently works as an hca and is an excellent & valued employee who has been told she'd make an excellent nurse has said to me they'd love to do it but can't afford it and they're also not confident on the academic side (she'd be find its genuinely just a confidence issue). I genuinely believe we're missing out on recruiting good even excellent hcps because of these and other issues.

Whereas my mentor friend is increasingly frustrated at dealing with trainees who think certain fundamental tasks are "beneath them" and who have snobby attitudes towards certain patients!

TheBouquets - agree, the issues around wastage and dodgy procurement practice needs addressed too.

There's also a lot of "false economies" which I saw starting just before I left. The one that immediately springs to mind is outsourcing cleaning - which within a matter of months led to increase in hospital acquired infection which is a huge pita and very expensive to deal with! That tiny saving on cleaning cost the Nhs millions I'm sure and also cost patients their health even lives!

I still bristle whenever visiting family/friends in hospital and seeing filthy wards, scruffy even dirty hcp uniforms, poor infection control practice...

I also wonder what's going on with training when I see things like poor obs practices, poor note taking etc

@HerRoyalNotness - did you see that tv show that was made a few years back where a business expert of some kind was brought into an Nhs environment to see his assessment of how things could be improved?

Iirc he was shocked and angered at things like well equipped op theatres lying vacant 2-3 days a week because consultant surgeons were off playing golf on full time salaries, at the extortionate amount of money being spent on agency staff yet they were saying they couldn't afford to recruit permanent staff, even though permanent staff were far cheaper, at certain equipment being replaced/upgraded while it was still in perfect working order, usually because of consultants personal preferences and not there actually being a need to...