Explain how nursery works (in London) to me...

[guardianofthedairymilk]

I need a Nursery For Dummies tutorial, please. I thought I understood it, but we are moving house / area and I can't seem to find an equivalent of our current set up.

DD is currently in a 30hr place at a Local Authority nursery which is not attached to a school. I pay £24 a month on top of her funding, to cover food. It's an area of very high depravation. The nursery is absolutely exceptional imo, I've always suspected we got lucky but it's just how it is around here, iyswim.

We're moving to London, and a change in my income will mean DD is entitled to a 15 hr nursery place from Sept. I can't find any 'independent-of-school' LA nurseries in the area - are these a rarity?

Schools have nursery classes as far as I can tell, but I'd prefer to avoid these if possible. Are these generally fully funded by the Universal Funding deal?

Am I right in thinking the only other option is a private nursery? The ones I've contacted would charge upwards of £2k per term on top of the Universal Funding for a 15hr place. It's a shock to the system for me, but is this pretty standard? I'd imagine it costs a lot more to run a nursery in London with salaries and property costs etc.

Am I missing something obvious? How do people on a middle income manage this?

How old is DC?

Some schools will take from 2+ in specific provision but it’s not universal.

Most school nursery places are just for the year before school.

Standalone LA nurseries are vanishingly rare as far as I know.

Otherwise yes it’s very expensive private nursery’s. Or a childminder.

There used to be something called Sure Start nurseries in London - funded/subsidised by social services for the most deprived children but they would open up their doors to others if spaces arose. We were lucky to get a very cheap place. I'm not sure if they still exist though.

Most childminders will charge a hell of a lot less than that and you get much more one on one care

Not in SE London sadly. All of the childminders in my area charge more than the local nurseries as standard, plus extras for the playgroups etc. It was far cheaper for us (if you can call over £1000 cheaper, I guess!) to go with a nursery.

Thank you all - she's 4 but deferred so pre-school for another year.

Also sometimes called Early Years Centres. A quick google shows that some London Boroughs still have these but no details about costs or vacancies so I guess you'd have to approach them directly.

Are you just after school hours and term time only

In our area there is only one LA nursery offering full daycare and about forty private day nurseries. Not London,but I have always thought LA nurseries were super- rare everywhere. Do you have to move now or can you delay for a few years?

My DC were in nursery in the days before 15 or 30 hour places and we were paying double our mortgage for a toddler and a baby in nursery. On middling incomes (hourly rate was about 1.5x minimum wage). We didn't eat out, no real holidays, no new clothes, no savings. Just every month paying the equivalent of 3 mortgages (our actual one, then the nursery fees)

Hi OP

Just wondering why you are against nurseries attached to schools?

If you are ok with school hours they are generally excellent - they always have a qualified teacher as one of the child to teacher ratios. They usually offer top up hours as well, although these are quite sought after so often waiting lists.

You could combine school nursery (9am - 3pm) with wraparound childminder (say 7.30am - 9am, then 3pm - 6pm). Childminder drops and picks up.

The DC gets benefits of school nursery (you can use your 15 hrs, then pay for extra sessions) and is cared for all day.

Childminder is £7 per hour here (expensive SE commuter belt). Might be a slight premium for wrap around as it affects ratios to take other full-time children.

I’d look for a childminder as well. We had to as we simply couldn’t afford London nursery fees - but in the end the childminder we found was so wonderful, I’d chose her over a nursery without a second thought.

Look for pre schools rather than nurseries. These will be term time only and likely from 9-3 though rather than a full working day.

Local authority run ones are extremely rare in London. I’m in the south east and don’t know of any in our area.

Lucky to be moving out of the depraved area the current nursery is in though...

I think local authority nurseries are not v common here. I’m on Waltham Forest and the last one is closing soon (it was in quite a deprived area of the borough). With my son he was at a private nursery (50 weeks a year) and then when he was nearly four I moved him to a preschool/nursery attached to a school. It was a really good choice, great facilities and resources. He got his 30 hrs there and I paid for breakfast and teatime club somedays. Parents who only got 15 hrs do either a morning or afternoon session five days a week. Luckily the school has an excellent holiday club so he could go to that at half term etc. I think his private nursery once he got his 30 hrs wasn’t too expensive but ours is quite reasonable (£52 a day), they do exist so look around.

Is there a reason to swerve the ones attached to a school?

Ah so helpful to read these, thank you all.

Tbh I think my slight nervousness about nurseries attached to schools is based in ignorance rather than reality as I've no experience at all to draw on! I think I need to visit a few. Term time hours would be fine for us - I'm about to have some more time off with another baby so I'm around.

I'm imagining that in a school-attached nursery, it's likely to feel a little more structured, and a little more school-like than in an 'independent' setting. I'm quite strongly inclined to keep her in as unstructured and free-play-conducive an environment as possible, for as long as possible....I guess the discussion around that is a whole different thread but I am passionate about the impact of genuinely free play in early years (as opposed to play-based 'learning' activities).

I have friends whose kids' nurseries have been very focused on getting kids 'school ready' from really quite early, which they've felt at times has been to their kids' detriment. So I guess that's my fear, but as I say, I'm conscious that it's not really solidly grounded in evidence!

As others have said, I wouldn't dismiss those attached to a school out of hand. The pre-school attached to our school is very much focused on free-play with children having access to various indoor and outdoor activities that they can choose. They don't wear a uniform or get homework or anything like that! (Although I know some nurseries that do!)

Out of interest are you moving from Scotland? (Just what you describe sounds like what I'm familiar with from home!)

Op there are a few of this type of nursery school in London, search for 'maintained nursery schools'. They probably won't be around much longer thanks to funding cuts though.

My son’s preschool is def’ free play/free flow. I don’t know any that aren’t. He wears a uniform but it’s only trousers and a polo top, no big deal. He was in a small private nursery (Victorian terrace) before and while it was great I felt he needed more space at rising four. Maybe visit a few local to where you are going to move to. His is great - a huge garden with all sorts of play stuff, rabbits, huge book corners, great resources. His little buddies who went to different preschools are just as happy with theirs.

Most nurseries are private. If both parents work (or single parent works you get 30 hours term time, otherwise it's 15 which you have indicated you are entitled to. There's not for profit nurseries that operate for 15 hours a week which may be an option, but the handful of school/la nurseries will be full for September

You need to visit all kind of settings. Obviously school attached nurseries and term time pre schools are closed now so you may find you have a problem if you need it before September.

Unless you plan a public school for your child no state school gives you admission priority for attending preschool. And most of these are term time only with hours like 9-12 or similar and children attend for 5 days meaning they just cover the 15 hr funding.

Private nurseries will take funded places but they work the funding into an annual amount, divide it by 12 and apply it to each monthly invoice. DD attended one for 4 full days and I think we paid around £500/month after the funding but that was ages ago. A childminder in our area will do wrap around cover for part time pre school but that will be around £5/hour at least if not more.

Not all pre schools are the same. The one attached to DD’s primary school was just all about play and learning by playing with a bit of structure especially for the last term before they started Reception to get them used to more concentration and focus. But there are others with some kind of uniform and a time table.

There will be variations, but in my experience private nurseries (not pre-schools) tend to have minimally qualified childcare staff, often inexperienced without children of their own. It will be free play but minimally guided, paying lip service to learning. Unstructured can sound nice, but it may not actually be what you are imagining.

A good preschool will have free-flow play, the kids will be playing almost all the time but will be learning, usually guided by educationally qualified staff (if not teachers). It really isn’t like school.

I’d choose a state pre-school over a private nursery every single time.

Even Forest School has some kind of learning base around the apparent ‘free play’ (not that you’ll get many of those in London 😄

There are very few of these in London. Sometimes attached to a children’s centre but our local one has closed its nursery.

Main options are childminder, nursery attached to school and private nursery. We’ve been with a childminder till recently and in Sept, DD is going up to a nursery attached to a school. I visited 3 when doing my research and I was really impressed. Yes, there is a bit more ‘learning’ than I was expecting but plenty of play and the kids seemed to be having a great time.

The other thing to consider is starting reception. A mum I chatted to at a settling in day at nursery the other day said that she didn’t send her older son and really regretted it as he was then only a handful of kids in Reception who didn’t know all the others and he found it tough.

Also, school readiness includes being able to share, to make friends, to manage conflicts and have periods of being able to sit in a group and listen, to a story for example. It might, but won’t always include phonics etc., but there won’t be a heavy emphasis on it (and most kids love being able to recognise letter sounds in their environment!)

Being prepared by experienced and highly trained staff can make a HUGE difference to your child’s enjoyment of school and membership of a (30 child) class. It’s actually a gift to your child to make them ready, I see quite a bit of negativity about this but don’t really understand it.