Child minder / nanny - Can she bring other children to our house?

[BeverlyGoldberg]

We have arranged for one of the practitioners from DD's nursery to look after her at our house for two days a week during the summer hols (she only works term time). The arrangement would be two full days while I'm at work (the other days DH can cover).

She is not Oftsed registered, but she's great and we trust her in our house. She has babysat before and DD really likes her.

However another family now have asked her to do five days a week and she has asked us if she can bring their two children to our house on the days she is looking after DD (the other days presumably would be at their house).

I was initially ok with this as I think it'd be nice for DD to have company but I am concerned about the insurance liability point of view. If one of the other children injures themselves in our house, would we be liable? We have very well behaved animals who are used to DD but may get upset by other children - I am sure they would never hurt a child (they are cats) but you just never know with animals especially if they were scared. Also does the fact she is being paid to look after the other children here make our house a place of employment / childcare for which we would not be insured.

We don't want to go back on our word but we have to make sure everything is above board and the right thing for all concerned.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

I would suggest that your DD goes to the other house.

Sounds like she’s a nanny (not childminder) and yes you would need employer’s liability insurance. What if the nanny hurts herself?

No way would I allow that.

As suggested, she picks up your daughter and takes her to the other house.

If DD goes to their house aren't they going to have the same issue?

Also I don't know what their house is like as I don't know the family. I'd feel uneasy with DD going somewhere we haven't seen.

The answer to your question is It's up to you whether she brings other DC along.

Personally I'd be all for it. How nice for your DD to have some play mates. Great for her social development too.

Guess she agreed to working for you for two days a week, then got offered five full days work a week looking after two children, which presumably suits her better as she accepted. She either would feel guilty at letting you down or would welcome more cash, so is trying to combine both.
You may lose her altogether if the combination doesn’t suit you, do you have other options?

The other arrangement almost certainly is more convenient as they live nearer to her.

She had offered to turn them down but I don't want to be unfair to her and have her work just 2 days for us when she can presumably earn more with them.

Our alternatives would be to just manage through taking annual leave, flexing days, family, friends etc.

We really like her, we don't blame her whatsoever for wanting to maximise her earnings - we're just concerned from an insurance perspective and want to do what is best for everyone, whether or not that ends up being inconvenient to us, as long as everything is above board legally.

You may be covered on your contents insurance (contact them and ask) and you can ask her to buy personal liability insurance (a company like Morton Michel will do this for nannies). Please don't buy it for her as it invalidates the policy if they find out. It's not expensive, certainly less than £100. I've been a nanny for 18 years and have worked in multiple nanny shares and this is how we have ensured we are covered. Also, go through some ground rules with her about having them in your house before you start, perhaps have them around for a playdate if thats possible? Hopefully this will help you to feel more comfortable with the situation.

Either you or she needs insurance, regardless of whether the other children are at your house or not.

The majority of nannies have to be employed whch means you have to deduct and pay across tax and national insurance and hold Employer Liability insurance. However ad hoc/maternity nannies etc can be self employed. A summer temp nanny (presumably for 5/6 weeks maximum, is possibly a grey area, they might be able to be classed as self employed (manybe someone else knows if there is any time precedent that has been set.

If that is the case then she needs to have public liability insurance in the same wasy a visiting piano teacher etc would need to have.

I doubt she's insured at all, she's need to be ofsted registered to get it.
It's a judgement call really

Nannies don’t need to be ofsted registered.

She doesn't need to be Ofsted registered to have PL insurance as a nanny. You get a discount if you are but it's not compulsory.

But she's still have to get insurance. Would she insure her car for business use

Surely she will be liable as she is the adult in charge? She should have her own insurance but I'm not sure many babysitters do.

It's fairly straightforward to do that too, we have it on ours, my DH just told them I was using our car to transport the children I nanny (and to drive to and from work) and as far as I can remember it was something like £30 extra.

£0 extra for me on my policy.

If she had nanny insurance would she then still be insured if she had the other kids at our house? Or is it just for care of the child in their house own house?

It depends on the terms of her insurance.

If she is able to be classed sa a self employed nanny then her insurance should cover her for whatever children she hs in her care at whichever premises or activity she had taken them to.

If she is classed as employed then your insurance would cover her whilst you are employing her to take care of your children and the other parents should take out similar insurance.

So to give an example:

My husband teaches music. He used to work for a kids Saturday school. They held employer insurance which covered anything happening to him or anything he did whilst under their employ, lets say hypotetically a child tripped and broke their arm whilst under his care.

He also holds his own insurance through the MU. This vocers him if he goes to someones house to give a private lesson but suppose he decided to do a joint lesson to do duets, it would also cover the child of another family going to the first families house.

Ask her what she's planning to do re: insurance etc. It's her business, she needs to reassure you that she can offer the service you require. She would also need to be registered with HMRC as self employed.

I don't think it would be worth her while registering with HMRC, she's only doing this to help people out over the holidays. She's so lovely, it's no wonder she's in demand.

If it was just her and DD in the house then I think it'd be ok as it'd just be babysitting in a way. However I'd be concerned about being liable for the safety of the other children. Not that our house is a death trap but you just never know what could happen. I don't know if I would be comfortable with DD going to the other house as it is a fair distance and we don't know the other family (I am sure they are lovely and we have no indication to the contrary but I'd rather know where she is going).

I don't think it would be worth her while registering with HMRC, she's only doing this to help people out over the holidays.

It's not a choice. If you have a part-time job/earn extra money outside of your normal work you have to pay tax and national insurance whether that be at source from your employer (you) or by registering for self-assessment.

It’s not supposed to be worth her while to register with HMRC. Do you think people do it for pleasure?

I don't think people do it for pleasure but realistically if you were doing what amounts to casual babysitting in the summer holidays you may not.

Five full days over the summer holidays is not casual babysitting. Casual babysitting would be a couple of hours a week (and technically still liable for tax)