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Original poster

Would you support a law to terminate a parents rights due to abandonment?

33 replies

PrinceArchie · 07/07/2019 23:01

I was just reading that in the US a biological parent can have their legal rights terminated if it can be proved they have been absent from their child’s life for over 4 months without any contact. Although I’m sure it isn’t as simple as that. But it recognises the rights of a child and a parents duties to that child:

The Duty to Care for the Child: This includes showing the child love and affection; meeting a child’s physical, mental and emotional needs; and reasonably protecting a child from outside harm or abuse.
The Duty to Provide for the Child: This includes providing a child with food, shelter, medical care, education and other financial needs

In the UK a father (or mother but generally a father) can disappear for years on end and then decide to part of their child’s life and more often than not be awarded contact with the child. Maintenance doesn’t come into it.

I really feel that we do not take the abandonment of children by their fathers seriously in this country. It’s now a norm and not seen as anything out of the ordinary.

Thoughts?

OP posts:
PinkCrayon · 07/07/2019 23:10

I would fully support it.
Although I believe 4 months is too shorter time.
I would say after 2 years.

Its absolute bullshit that legally I would have to ask my ex for permission to take my kids on holiday when he hasnt seen them since they were tiny! He is a total stranger to them and in his words has moved on with his new family, I cant even get his parental responsibility stripped from him even though he takes absolutely no responsibility for them.

CodenameVillanelle · 07/07/2019 23:12

No, because we don't have parental rights in this country, only responsibilities. Children have rights. They have the right to know who their parents are and for that relationship not to be interfered with by the state without just cause.

Bonewitch · 07/07/2019 23:46

Yes, I would support it. Five years seems like a good amount of time to me, though you could instigate some sort of warning system - send out letters a year in advance saying that the time limit is approaching and if they haven't seen child by X date it will count as abandonment.

Parents may only have responsibilities in this country, but actually they look more like rights to me. Presumably a father with parental responsibility still has the right to make/know of his child's medical appointments - perhaps I've got that wrong, but I thought so? Imagine if you were a fifteen year old girl, and some bloke you haven't seen since you were two, could in theory find out all about your problem periods or contraception choices. Scary thought if that man is abusive too. Also there's men who have no interest in the children except to get at the mother - stressful for the children if their father pops up every few years to haul mum through court again. My friend had one like that, it was awful

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Family law
WorraLiberty · 07/07/2019 23:49

I would support it after two years

But obviously if details and circumstance were fully looked into.

Bonewitch · 07/07/2019 23:49

And yes OP it's shocking that it's so normal in this country for children to be abandoned by a parent. It's a form of neglect. If a parent who lives with the child ignores them and spends no money on the basics needed for their upkeep, they will be charged with neglect, but it's OK if they don't live with the child?

pikapikachu · 08/07/2019 00:12

4 months seems too short for me but I think that parents who are long-term NC (2years?) shouldn't have as much power as they do in England. I regularly read on here about mothers wanting to change their child's surname to hers, worrying about not having the father's permission to travel abroad or not being able to get a step parent parental responsibility so that they can take the child to medical appointments etc when the Dad is NC.

Original poster
PrinceArchie · 08/07/2019 00:21

@CodenameVillanelle, exactly, a child has a right to know their parents. If a parent refuses to fulfil that right, consistently, over a period of time, they absolutely should be hauled up for child abandonment.

The child has rights and the parent has a responsibility to fulfil those rights.

For those of you saying a longer period of time, I understand where you are coming from but I personally think years is too long. 4 months maybe too short but we are talking about a consistent period of no contact whatsoever.

We don’t seem to have any laws in this country at all which cover child abandonment other than in the sense of physically leaving a child to fend for itself with no adult at all.

I think the Americans rights of the child are bang on the money, if you can’t fulfil them, or choose not to fulfil them we as a society should hold those people to account.

OP posts:
Original poster
PrinceArchie · 08/07/2019 00:25

Personally, and yes I do have skin in the game so to speak, i’d have a monthly column in the local rag detailing every man who’s been stripped of his parental responsibility due to child abandonment.

Im sure there was a sociological study I read which said that most of us don’t commit crime not because of the threat of prison, but because of the social stigma and shame if we were caught. We keep each other in check.

The stigma of walking out on children has all but gone. We don’t even have a legal term for it as far as I can see.

OP posts:
RubberTreePlant · 08/07/2019 00:30

Yes, absolutely.

pikapikachu · 08/07/2019 00:45

I believe that you can get a divorce on desertion grounds after 2 years (England) which is probably why 2 years sounded right to me.

pikapikachu · 08/07/2019 00:46

Is the 4 months from birth or from knowing about the pregnancy ?

HeddaGarbled · 08/07/2019 00:54

No, because it’s not about the parent’s rights, it’s about the child’s. If you ban the parent from knowing the child, then you’re banning the child from knowing their parent.

Original poster
PrinceArchie · 08/07/2019 06:29

@HeddaGarbled if the parent has been absent for an extended period of time they clearly don’t want to know their child. It doesn’t matter how much the child wants to know their parent, an absent father cannot be forced to see their child.

Where is the protection for the child’s rights?

OP posts:
El0die · 08/07/2019 06:43

The idea is interesting. The 4 month period is no doubt to prevent absent parents just popping up once every 2 or 5 years to keep their hand in , so to speak, especially when done with the intention to upset the mother/ retain power, rather than actually seeing the child.
It wouldn't necessarily PREVENT a child from seeing that parent in the future or developing some kind of personal relationship- it would just strip that 'parent' of their legal rights over the child.

meditrina · 08/07/2019 06:43

No, not in the slightest.

The child has an enduring right to know his or her parents.

The parents have responsibilities to their DC. Failure to discharge those duties still does not remove the rights of the child.

There are already care proceedings for DC where no adult is performing their duties adequately

JennaOfEluria · 08/07/2019 06:47

I'd support this...but as other have said after either two years or after more than one instance of prolonged absence for people who want to play the system as a control thing.

Triglesoffy · 08/07/2019 06:56

Can we turn this on its head?

What if the father abandons the child but then makes contact again when the child has grown into an adult? What if the father is ill and wants adult child to look after him?

From what you’re saying, there are no parental rights and the adult child can tell him to FOTTFSOF?

stucknoue · 08/07/2019 07:05

The problem is that for every absent father (let's face it mostly fathers but occasional mother) who this can apply to, there's another who has an ex partner doing everything they can to avoid contact. I would support a court process after say 5 years to terminate rights but with that has to be child support as well, lives are complicated and many men do desire access but are not pushing for it to keep the peace, this happened to h and his dad

orangeshoebox · 08/07/2019 07:11

no way
would that mean that it's not possible to claim maintenance?
I sadly know men who would rub their hands with glee.

IDontGiveABagOfDicks · 08/07/2019 07:29

I would, absolutely.

Especially as my abusive ex has just sent a mediation request after 4 years of NC, no maintenance as he’s gone to extreme lengths to avoid it, and is in no way fit to have even a small amount of contact with DC.

Tinkety · 08/07/2019 07:30

Terminating a parent’s legal rights works both ways though doesn’t it, like in adoption. So the child will lose their legal right to their parent’s estate & a potential inheritance. As it stands - even with complete abandonment - a child has a legal right to bring a claim against their parent’s estate or contest a will etc. In fact, if the parent were to die whilst the child is still a minor then the court is very likely to overturn any will in favour of the child.

Bonewitch · 08/07/2019 07:44

I know plenty of women who would gladly forego maintenance.

Not like they get much from the absent father anyway.

The two tend to go hand in hand. Not paying for your child, being a dick who abandons child....

IDontGiveABagOfDicks · 08/07/2019 07:46

@BoneWitch I would. I’ve only ever had 4 payments over 4 years when CMS have caught him/he’s stayed at a job slightly too long. I’m terrified of him being anywhere near DC, I really am.

Bonewitch · 08/07/2019 07:48

Idontgiveabagofdicks I know exactly how you feel.

Original poster
PrinceArchie · 08/07/2019 08:06

It is insane to me that a father can be MIA for years and then waltz back in and legally be allowed to make decisions for a child he doesn’t even know. Absolutely crazy.

Yes the “no maintenance” thing is a red herring. I’m sure many parents would happily give up the £6 the Csa get for them in exchange for the sole parental responsibility for their child

OP posts: