Lesbian couple fight for child born in Canada

[GleefulGlitch]

Story is in the Daily Mail if anyone wants to read it.

The jist is a british women living in Canada had a 9 year relationship with a Canadian women resulting in their marriage.

They used a sperm donor and the British women carried and birthed a child. Both women were on the BC.

The Canadian women wanted to take a job in the UAE however due to their laws as a lesbian she would be refused so she asked Bio mum to remove her name from the childs BC . This was done via the courts 1 year after the childs birth.

Canadian women went on to work in the UAE but later gave the job up and asked bio mum to put her name back on the BC. Bio mum refused there relationship had already ended.
Various things went through court which prevented Bio mum bringing the child to England or even applying for the childs Canadian passport.

Time passed and bio mum and the childs bio dad got together and had another child a boy abd fled the country.

Bio mum was arrested in Jersery and according to the article will be sent back to Canada with the child.

None bio mum wants custody/visitation.

In my opinion this should be denied.
The Canadian women as no bioligical ties to the child and chose to have her name removed from the BC therefore relinquishing parental responsibility so she could apply for a job.
The child is now 4 years old and could be taken away from her mother and brother and given to a women who has had no contact with her for 3 years and is no biological relation.

I am interested in hearing other peoples thought. Thanks.

Because that's the one that makes you sound like a bigot? The others sounded fairly reasonable.

Why do you ask?

And yes, of course I choose to be offended. In much the same way that you choose to be unpleasant. How unfortunate, then, that you seem to dislike the impression you give by being unpleasant, whereas I am only too happy to call you out on it.

What else can we call her?

I dont know thats why I asked.

You said you use mother for her out of kindness but do you believe she is a mother?
Does she have the right to force a bitter court battle which will cause huge stress to the child's parents. The only parents she has known and as it happens are her bio parents?
To make her live in a country where her grandparents who she has a relationship with dont live?
Her only relatives in Canada may be the relations of a women she gas never known. Is that ok just to be kind to Canadian mum?

Because that's the one that makes you sound like a bigot?

Sorry are you calling me a bigot because the default socially accepted word mother means woman who birthed a child and I acknowledged that fact?

No.

But thanks for the apology.

I think you’re running away with what I said a bit there, @gleefulglitch

I already said I believe the child has nothing to gain from all this, so there’s no need to ask me whether I approve of the court battle.

But thanks for the apology.

If thats what you need then take it as such. Makes no difference to me.

Sorry Haw it was more a general question than directed at you.

Well part of me thinks she can’t of been that committed to the child if she was going to work abroad. How many hands on parents would voluntarily do that unless there was literally no other option.

Sorry for your situation Social it seems like you were very much a parent in your childs life and took your responsibilities seriously. You deserve the parental role as its clear you behaved like a parent.

My question is did Canada mum do that?

Yes but you didn't take your name off the Bc and fuck off for a job did you

Poor bloody kid. The lot of them are a disgrace. Best interests and welfare of child right out of the window.

Well looking at the Daily Mail story (which I would trust as far as I could spit) and other versions (The Independent eg), this could have been me. If my ex had decided to leave the country, what would I have done? They went to the UAE together, she didn't just up and leave her daughter and it was after they came back that they split. She went to court for custody (like I did), it was the birth mother who did the runner, what was she supposed to do, just forget her child..?

Independent article from 2016 www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/lesbian-couple-daughter-child-custody-battle-lauren-etchells-sperm-donor-canada-uk-uae-a7343886.html

Imo it’s about whether Canadian Mum has an established relationship with the child. By the sound of it she was disinterested enough to have her name removed from the BC and swan off abroad on her own and not see the child for 3 years. So she has no bio relationship and no emotional relationship to the child. For me that means the child should stay with British Mum and Dad who she has both of those relationships with.

Thank you for the extra info social it does make me feel that my original opinion was based on the scant info I had.

Knowing Canadian mum actively fought to be a parent does change by view a little.

However it does pose a new question. After 3 years of a 4 yo life never knowing this women who has no bio connection is contact in the childs best interests?

The Independent article gives very different info, the bio mum only left Canada to stop the other mum from having visitation because she thought she had been given too much time and she had applied for full custody. The Canadian mum had been involved until that point, and began the legal fight to have her daughter returned to Canada straight away.

The DM article (possibly a different one from the one the OP read) said bio mum had been banned from having a passport for the child and had smuggled her out of the country, eventually taking her to Jersey in an unsafe dinghy.

The Canadian article says bio mum has moved child all over Europe to evade arrest.

www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lauren-etchells-kaydance-found-1.5200209

Bio mum doesn't exactly come off smelling of roses here, looks like she just tried to cut the other parent out of her child's life.

Who knows what is best now, child has been with bio mum and brother for a long time. Canadian mum obviously loves her and has fought to be part of her life.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7216139/British-mother-went-run-toddler-daughter-arrested-landing-dinghy-Jersey.html

Would you ask the same question if it was a bio parent? If your child was taken by your ex partner and "on the run", and therefore you had no contact, completely out of your control, would you accept that you then can never be allowed contact due to the length of time that has passed? Do you stop loving that child, stop being their parent due to the selfish actions of the other parent? And if so, what time limit do you put on for this? I think that could set an extremely dangerous precedent, something that could be exploited

JAPAB - think you misunderstood my post. But thanks for stating the bleeding obvious.

@socialistmamma, I'm so sorry you went through that.

I also find it hurtful and frankly shitty, the implication that when the chips are down, not being your child's biological parent suddenly counts against you.

I'm my DD's non-bio mum, and the number of people who've said 'ooh, I hope you adopted her or you'll have no rights!' or assumed if we'd split she wouldn't be 'mine,' astound me. It really does give you an insight into the way people's minds work.

Social

Thats what I am questioning.

The article I read gave little detail and I gave an opinion based on that info with a willingness to change said opinion.

Is a bio parent the full stop of being a parent or are other factors considered?

My opinion at first was because Canadian mum took herself off the BC then she has no rights as there is no bio connection.

However thanks to you more details have emerged and Canadian mum actually fought for her PR and took that responsibility seriously.

However I think studies show that children who are adopted/abandoned do in the most have a inner need to find their biological roots. Even if its just to say thanks I had a great life they still need that connection.

If the Canadian woman hasn't been (or being trying to) paying child maintenance or maintaining a relationship with the child for the last 3 years, then I don't see why she should get custody of the child in question

She didn't have the option to, the biological parents went on the run with the child.

Her second mother should have rights, however she hasn't seen the child in two years (plus the time she lived in UAE for work) and the family live in another country now. It's going to be awkward sorting it out. I hope the court does what is right for the little girl, and in my opinion (going by the info we have) I would say she should stay with her biological family, with the Canadian mother allowed to fly over and visit her and rebuild their relationship with a view to spending more time with her as she ages.

Haven't read the article but, the child now lives with her bio mum, dad and brother? I wonder what would happen if bio dad wanted his name added to the birth certificate (is that possible) or wanted PR? I assume as things stand the dad has no right or responsibility to the older child?

@GleefulGlitch

Is a bio parent the full stop of being a parent or are other factors considered?

Well obviously not, there are hundreds of reasons someone has non-bio parents which don't negate them from being parents

However I think studies show that children who are adopted/abandoned do in the most have a inner need to find their biological roots. Even if its just to say thanks I had a great life they still need that connection.

That is a completely different debate. This case has nothing to do with being abandoned/adopted and the childs need to know their biological roots, it's about the rights of the Canadian mum who did everything she could to maintain contact with her child and the other mum who denied her that by fleeing the country because it suited her.

@SarahAndQuack

Thanks, we co parent well now but it was horrendous going through it and really opened my eyes to just how little people viewed me as the non-bio mum (including the court system!) and I had similar comments that you've had 😔

@KennDodd the bio mum is no longer in a relationship with the sperm donor

it's about the rights of the Canadian mum who did everything she could to maintain contact with her child and the other mum who denied her that by fleeing the country because it suited her.

Is it though?
The child is 4 yo. Not seen Canadian mum for 3 years. Lives with bio mum bio dad and bio brother. Happy and well cared for according to reports. Whose rights/needs come first?
Canadian mum who has no bio connection?
Or the childs?