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Assessment for three year old.

15 replies

sunflowersandbutterflies · 02/07/2019 21:26

Posting here for traffic. I did post on the SEN board at lunchtime but it seems really quiet over there so wondering if someone might have some insight here.

I'm new to the world of SEN (or possible SEN) so could really do with some advice please. I'll try to keep it brief but don't want to leave out anything important so bear with me!

My three year old (3y 3m) was always a high needs baby. Traumatic birth, silent reflux, feeding issues, difficult to wean, non sleeper, on medication for unrelated issue for first year of life. We never got out to baby groups as a result however I did take her to weekly stay and play sessions when she was about 2. Her sleep sorted itself out around 9m and she's been a great sleeper ever since (in own cot/bed etc). Her development was always fine though except for she was a late speaker. Couldn't speak until age 2 except for a few baby words. Then she started, then when her sibling arrived at age 2.5 the words really came and she now is on the very advanced side of speech/vocab/context etc. The speech also coincided with her getting glasses because we discovers that one of her eyes was damaged at birth and that her vision in it was/is terrible as a result.

So no real development issues. She's very advanced (according to playgroup, she's my first so I don't know what's 'normal') in what you'd call academic areas. Since around the age of 3 she's been able to count to 30, add simple sums in her head, draw people accurately (as in all features in the right place), knows her alphabet, can recognise and almost legibly write familiar words like her own name. She's known all her colours, shapes etc from tiny even before she could speak she could point them all out. Her memory shocks me, this child forgets nothing. I don't teach her exactly but I'm a sahm so I've got lots of time and we read a lot (I read, she listens she can't read!) and do lots of activities where she learns if that that makes sense. I mean I don't hot house her.

However, she's really really struggled settling into playgroup. It's a small setting of around 20 children with six teachers. I expected her to have a few weeks where she was upset because she'd never been left with anyone except grandparents before. And she did the first few weeks she cried when I left but then soon stopped. So far, so normal really. She was doing mornings only and then 3 full days (9-2) when her age 3 funding kicked in.

She is really struggling still though six months later. Not at drop off, she's happy to go and waves me off. But they're saying she needs constant 1-1 attention and finding transitions really hard. Apparently if she is not 1-1 she gets really upset, and if they change activity she gets really upset. Also she says she doesn't like the children being noisy so she wants to go outside a lot when it all gets a bit full on.

They've also picked up on the fact that she sometimes tip toe walks and doesn't really play with other children. In fact she likes to play alone or 1-1 with a teacher and gets upset when other children try to play with her. She constantly tells them she 'misses her family' when she's there and upset. They say she's usually quite anxious.

I have to collect her earlier than scheduled because they say she can't cope with full days. I've been going at 1 instead of 2 for a few weeks. My feeling was that it was because she'd dropped her final nap - she loved the nap! - when she went to full days but it needed to go anyway because it was interfering with bedtime.

She does have some good days where she doesn't cry much but she does cry at some point every single session. I feel awful. But I feel like removing her would be counter productive, she starts school next year and she does need to get used to this sort of environment (which is why I sent her in the first place).

Anyway, today they called me lunchtime and asked me to collect her because she'd been upset on and off all morning. They'd tried to jolly her out of it and distract her like usual but she kept crying and they don't like to leave them upset there (fine by me I don't want her sobbing either). The manager spoke to me and said they want to get their SENCO in to observe her because they'd never had a child like it six months on (she's very experienced has been there 15 years) and they also want the SENCO to come and observe her at home to see what she suggests. She said they feel there's a big gap between her cognitive abilities and her social development and that we've only got a year until she starts school so we need to get ahead of any SENs as soon as possible.

I'm happy for her to be observed etc and will help wherever I can. I've asked if I can go in and observe her (hiding so she can't see me) too because she isn't like this at home so it's hard for me to understand why she's like this and what's triggering it.

At home, she's generally a confident and happy child. We're a settled household, both parents at home, no rows etc. We don't yell or smack for discipline. She probably has two tantrums a week but nothing that I'd call out of the ordinary for a three year old. Usually at being told no, or to stop doing something etc. I'm racking my brains to see if there's anything that she does that is particularly unusual but really can't think of anything. She's a bit of a fussy eater, but again, not outside the realms of what you'd expect for a small child. The only strange thing that she's started doing lately is when she's tired at the end of the day sometimes she'll take her favourite teddy (that she sleeps with), hide it and say it's gone forever and that she wants it. Then when I saw 'that's ok, I'll help you find it' she screams at me no, that it's gone and gone forever. This can go round in a loop until bedtime.

Can anyone offer me some insight/advice/thoughts? Does this sound like she has SEN? I don't know what to do for the best!

OP posts:
Mac47 · 02/07/2019 22:02

It sounds like everyone is doing absolutely the right things at the moment. If the nursery has some concerns, they are quite right to discuss this, hard as it is to hear as a parent. It is often the case that children present differently in nursery to home, although some of the behaviours you describe actually sound similar in both nursery and home.
I would say that for the moment, see what the senco says after she has observed her in the setting. Once they (and you) have a bigger picture, the setting can focus on what they are going to do to support her further, which may include seeking external professionals' advice if necessary.

Atalune · 02/07/2019 22:13

I think the nursery are doing all the right things and it is not uncommon for children behave differently at nursery.

What are they going to observe her against?

sunflowersandbutterflies · 02/07/2019 22:25

Thanks for responding both of you. I appreciate it.

I don't know @Atalune. They just said they'd get the SENCO to come in on one of the days DD attends (not her normal day) and observe her for the day then arrange an observation visit at home too. They didn't say what against, is there a criteria or checklist or something?

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stucknoue · 02/07/2019 22:28

They are doing the right thing, I suspect they are thinking possible asd, late talking is an indicator as it the tip toe walking. But that doesn't mean she is, just a possibility (and even if she is be really positive that they are diagnosing young so can get early intervention in place, dd has asd and is a young adult now)

cestlavielife · 02/07/2019 22:32

To help with transitions suggest they use clear visual timetables
Ask for OT assessment looking at sensory issues

SootySueandSweeptoo · 02/07/2019 22:38

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cestlavielife · 02/07/2019 22:39

Tgere are various assessments and checklists for sensory processing and for example vineland. It is good they assessing and you can ask what you and dd can access for support

TheVinelandis designed to measure adaptive behavior of individuals from birth to age 90. TheVineland-IIcontains 5 domains each with 2-3 subdomains. The main domains are: Communication, Daily Living Skills, Socialization, Motor Skills, and Maladaptive Behavior (optional).

sunflowersandbutterflies · 02/07/2019 22:45

I was just going to ask you about assessments @cestlavielife so thanks for that info!

@SootySueandSweeptoo I'm not in the NW but thank you anyway. Sorry you're going through the same thing. DD can be pretty stubborn too, but at playgroup she just dissolves to tears. It makes me so sad, I hate the thought of her being upset.

Yes, if she does have extra needs we will be proactive in getting whatever support she needs in place for her.

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sunflowersandbutterflies · 03/07/2019 11:45

Well she has waved me off happily today and told me that she's going to have "lots of fun today Mummy with dancing and no crying!" So we will see.

She's actually slept really well last night (12.5 hours straight with no wake ups) whereas the night before she was up several times and awake for the day at 5am. So she was exhausted yesterday. I do wonder how much of this can be down to tiredness/missing that last nap (although she should now has adjusted to this it's been several weeks). It seems strange to me that she can have ok days and then have terrible ones. Her Dad and I are going to go up for a meeting with the manager tomorrow without her there (I don't like keep talking about it in front of her) so we'll see what they say.

If it comes to it - and it is if - what are people's thoughts on private assessments? From the little bit of reading I did last night it seems it can take years on the NHS particularly for young children and girls. I've spoken to a clinic locally with a good reputation and whose team seems very experienced and they've said once the SENCO has seen her they'd be happy to if needed. It's £1800. Yikes.

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SootySueandSweeptoo · 03/07/2019 15:40

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sunflowersandbutterflies · 03/07/2019 21:18

Thanks @SootySueandSweeptoo She had a better day and the SENCO came in for her session to be with her and observe. I met her, she seems nice.

She said DD for example today cried because she didn't want the tv on after lunch. They have 15 minutes sit down tv time after lunch and although she doesn't have to sit down and watch she can go off and play or look at books if she wants, she kicked off because she didn't want it on at all. Now obviously, this is tough luck it's what they do there and also the other children enjoy it. I don't know what her issue was because she loves tv at home and it was a program she enjoys (bloody Peppa!). I don't know if that sounds like a child with an SEN or a child who is three who is throwing a strop because shes not got her own way?! Whilst it's not desirable behaviour, (or something that would wash with me at home) is it outside the realms of normal for a child of that age? I don't know.

She also said that she can physically see DD getting anxious when she's upset. So she goes on tiptoes, the pitch of her voice changes. That sort of thing.

We will see what tomorrow brings. DH are going for a meeting with the manager tomorrow to get the SENCO feedback, then she (the SENCO) is coming to do a visit at home next week to observe her here. HV is also coming to see me when she's at playgroup. I asked her to come so I can have a chat before anything more formal occurs.

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SootySueandSweeptoo · 04/07/2019 14:11

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sunflowersandbutterflies · 04/07/2019 19:15

Thanks @SootySueandSweeptoo. Day was ok. SENCO with her again, more struggling with transitions. They had a SALT person (who appear to do much more than just speech) in there today to see another child who apparently almost immediately noticed DD due to how she was behaving and flagged it as a concern.

DH and I had our meeting with the manager to get SENCO feedback. In not so many words she said they suspect DD has ASD and/or sensory issues. She said a real concern is that most children who don't wish to for example take part in a group thing like sitting watching tv together will eventually bend to the will of the group - it's in their nature. So they may kick off for a week or two but eventually they'll get that they need to conform to the group and they do. DD doesn't. She literally does not care what the other children are doing or will in fact wilfully want to do the opposite and be on her own.

Poor DD. Honestly almost since the moment she was conceived nothing has been straightforward or easy for her. Although maybe this is why. Maybe it's all linked.

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SootySueandSweeptoo · 05/07/2019 10:15

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sunflowersandbutterflies · 07/07/2019 20:21

Thanks so much for your support @SootySueandSweeptoo . I really appreciate it at what is a really uncertain and new time for us! How are things going with your DS? Are you moving forward with things?

I've really taken careful notice of DD this weekend. Just been more observant (not that I don't usually pay attention to her!). After the meeting with the playgroup manager on Thursday and her pointing out some behaviours I've realised she's totally right in what she's saying. We've always thought DD to be inquisitive and curious. She asks 'what's that?', 'what happened?' 'What did you say?' 'What are you doing?' 'What's wrong?' a lot. If she hears a noise, or you're talking about something. It's only now that I'm noticing the pitch of her voice does change when she does it. She does go on tiptoes, fidget or look upwards when she does it. It is almost fixation like until you answer. It's not curiously (or not all, anyway). It's anxiety. Shes looking for constant reassurance.

I was watching her sat alone in the garden earlier. She was sat on the patio in the shade looking at books. Next doors kids were outside playing, screaming and laughing. She looked so cross and covered her ears with her hands. The noise just completely unsettled and irritated her.

I've made a big effort to stop saying 'nothing darling' or 'oh don't worry, it was just a motorbike' which I had automatically been doing and have started to explain exactly what things are etc. That seems to help.

It's going to be a long road ahead I think.

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