Toddler "discipline"

[londonloves]

I hate the word "discipline" and I'm pro a gentle approach (no shouting, not convinced about the idea of time outs etc.) But I'm interested to know at what age it's reasonable to expect a child to do/not do something that you tell them?
E.g. don't spit your water out, don't chase the cat, please stop kicking me/wriggling (nappy change for context) etc.
And any tips on how to achieve this...
If everyone tells me this stuff is all normal for a nearly two year old I will chill the fuck out...! I just struggle to see how you transition from this chaos to reasonably civilised, obedient children!

This is super normal for that age. I am a very calm parent (for the most part!), but I am pro discipline in that it comes from 'discipulus' which means pupil. I show him what I expect. My son is 19m and his language is good but he doesn't understand a lot of what I say, so I approach it like this: Stop, redirect, reinforce. Stop the behaviour you don't want to see, redirect them onto a choice you're happy with, and then praise them straight after when they're doing the right thing. The praise is very important.

I try and set him up for success, so if he's spilling water on the floor, I say 'you're showing me you're not thirsty', and then I take the cup away. If he wants it back, he can have it and I then praise him if he's drinking nicely. If not it goes away again.

Hope that helps! I follow Simply on Purpose on Instagram and she has helped me with my parenting a lot!

The way you go from chaos to well behaved children is through disciplining them in my experience. I think all of the things you listed are absolutely normal and par for the course with a nearly two year old. I have always expected my dc to behave well but under 3 I understand that they don't, or at least not all of the time! I used distraction mainly when mine were very little, plus natural consequences. At 2 I would take away water if they were spitting , remove toys if they threw them, hold them down to change nappies. I will shout at them now they're older (they're still little, 3 and 5), if they're about to do something dangerous or have been very naughty, its pretty infrequent but very effective (probably because it's so infrequent). My dc are very well behaved and really good behaviour always gets lots of praise and the odd reward. Star charts worked well, particularly with my ds, but he was older than 2 when they 'clicked'.

I agree that shouting does no good but there does need to be consequences if they don't do as they're told.
Some things have natural consequences ,for example if they draw on things things they shouldn't after you've told them not they don't get their pens back until tomorrow, but I find time out's a good option for things that don't have a natural consequence like hitting or chasing the cat.

My two are 2 and 3 and while they still misbehave plenty they generally only need to be told once unless they are particularly overtired or overexcited.

That being said I never found a way to get them to stop wriggling when I was trying to change their nappies. I think you need some sort of magic spell for that.

I used time outs when we had the tantrum phase- but I put that she needed to sit still and calm herself down rather than focusing on it being about isolation or punitive.

Comprehension develops before language so they do understand more than they can explain.

I do think that consistency is really important. If my DC think they can get away with something, they'll do it again and again... so I think you do need to put boundaries in before their habits get entrenched.

I agree with firmly saying no, removing from the situation and praising a better choice.

My DD is VERY well behaved (I'm not bragging) she is only naughty when she is tired/hungry etc! But now and again she can have a random outburst and I will raise my voice at her, because it is so rare she knows that she must be really misbehaving for me to do it and stops.

Since she was probably 18 months iv spoken to her like an adult when she is naughty and rather than get upset with her I talk to her to find out what the problem is, iv never done naughty step but I do say "do you want to go to bed" when she is playing up which works for her, every child is different though when it comes to discipline.

She does play up for her dad a lot though but thats because they are basically the same person and clash 🤣 she is almost 3 with a development delay including speech!

I try and use actions and consequences - throwing things means they are taken away until they can be used nicely, deliberately spilled things he has to clean up himself and there isn’t any more etc. We don’t use time out per se but if he kicks, bites, pinches or anything, he is sent to sit down and think about why it wasn’t a kind thing to do, and then he has to apologise. I’ve always been gentle but firm with him and actually now at 2.5 he’s quite well mannered on the whole. I think you can be a gentle and non-shouty parent but if you want to do it for the best for both you and your child, that still means you have to be firm and set boundaries and consequences.

Well depends on what you mean by discipline. I am strict. I don’t shout. But I do expect to be listened to. Because sometimes there is no time for explanations and a no is a no. I will explain some things, I will take their feelings into account. But I say ‘no’ and ‘you are not to do that’ and expect to be listened to. There are usually immediate and small consequences for whatever it is. And I never back track just to keep the peace.
I also keep the rules simple: no hitting, no throwing and no screaming.
I would separate from the cat. I would say no to the spitting, ignore it and give no reaction and if it continued, remove her from the situation and enforce a small consequence.
One day he was kicking me while reading a story, I said stop it twice, he didn’t, I removed him, closed the book and put it on a shelf. Hysterical crying because he wanted the story. I said, no you hit me and we do not hit. And didn’t engage further. When he was a bit calmer we had a chat about rules and how if he behaves like that it spoils our nice time. And hitting/kicking is not nice. He is 2.5 now. Not a v rational beast but he has a broader framework of behaviour so he knows what my expectations are. (And he applauds himself enthusiastically when he does something well!!) I also have a 7 year old and I used the same thing with him- immediate consequences, simple rules, be consistent, do not negotiate constantly.

Thanks all - yes, I like the teaching/pupil interpretation of the word discipline, rather than the punishment context. Some good suggestions here.

I've found the 'How to talk to little kids so they will listen' book really helpful for my 20mo.
He's a good kid mostly but has a lot of energy and when he's tired/hungry this can lead to tantrums/bad behaviour.

We talk to him about emotions a lot and luckily his speech is good so he'll often say "I'm sad!" Or "I'm angry" (and also "happy!" "Excited!" For the good times too ha) and this helps open up the channel of why he feels the way he does. That usually diffuses most situations as we can rectify whatever it is that makes him feel sad. Or simply accept his emotion. "I know DS, waiting for your dinner is really frustrating! It's taking soooo long! Let's set an alarm so we can see exactly how long we have left to wait"

It's not fool proof. Sometimes I'm knackered so I don't do it right and make things worse. Sometimes he's just on another level and I have to let him go crazy. I usually just say "I can see you're feeling really angry. I'll wait close by until you feel calmer". Usually he chills out within a few minutes and says "I calm now" or will just be like "Oh! Thomas train! Go whooosh!!" And he's over it and ready to play ha.

Basically it's normal. Try and stuff your parenting tool bag with as much ammo as possible to help these situations and try different things until you figure out what works best for your DC.

You need to have the mindset of teaching and helping rather than punishment. An approach which teaches him to make good choices rather than blindly obey just because. "No means no because I need to keep you safe" is more meaningful than "because I said so". Natural consequences work because they link directly to what happened. Also remember your 2 year old will understand "please stop jumping on the sofa" they might not be able to think of what they should do instead eg sit down on it. To us it's obvious but a toddler will need reminding of what they should do not just what they shouldn't. With the cat for example show him how to stroke the cat nicely as well as separate them sometimes. Remember some behaviour will pass quite naturally as he matures.

21 month old here, so I'm an amateur. But - try to tell her what to do, not what not to do. Natural consequences. Closed choices ("Do you want to walk, or to sit in the pram?"). No giving in to tantrums. And Mum asks nicely once, twice, before making the choice for her ("Please walk nicely next to me, otherwise you're going in the pram.")

Thanks all!
@FlatPackPat someone else ha recommended that book to me so I will definitely get hold of it.
When he woke up from his nap just now he said "I'm happy" and he said "I'm excited" in the train about 487 times yesterday but he doesn't use any words for difficult emotions yet, so maybe I need to help him more with this.
Re the cat - I do sometimes manage to get him to "pay the cat nicely" and I make sure he's in his high chair when the cat is having dinner so he can eat and not be harassed but sometimes it's hard to separate them, e.g. when the cat comes in through cat flap, he's so excited to see him and squeals and chases him. Need to think about how to manage that situation with some consequences but its not easy!

For some children, “Do this. Thank you." is more effect than, "Please do this."
The difference being that the first one is an instruction, which you are presuming they will follow (and if they don't, there will be a consequence), whereas the second is a request, with the implied option of refusing or re-negotiating.

I agree with @NewName54321, Ive notice that if I ask DS to do something 'can you tidy this away?' hell just say 'No'. But if I give a short command 'back it goes!' 'Tidy please' he usually does it without a grumble. I think sometimes we can over complicate things without realising it!

With regards to emotions, I had some paper plates and I drew different faces on them (they were crap I'm no artist!). But I did an angry one, a sad one, a surprised one, happy.. oh and one that just looked like a drug addict which was his fave haha. Anyway he liked those and thought they were funny. I would 'act' the emotion whilst showing him the plate like "I feel ANGRY! GRR!!" (I'm sure you get the picture!). I think that helped. He'd get them out every now and again and ask for the different faces. When he felt that emotion in real life I'd tell him 'wow you are really surprised!!' 'It looks as if you're feeling angry' and so on.

Some further reading- the book you wish your parents had read by Phillipa Perry. Not a parenting tip book in the traditional sense but a really brilliant book that's helped me parent a lot.

I don’t actually think there’s anything wrong with squirming for a nappy change. It’s not a life skill they will need later as they’ll be potty training within the next few months / year presumably.
Me finding nappy changes increasingly annoying was a good “natural consequence” to incentivise me to potty train I found!